restoring an old knife

[Chris]

My grandfather was a butcher, he recently gave me one of his old knives, it is a big heavy cleaver, I don't have a knife like it, and still pretty sharp.

It has some significant corrosion on it, not rust so much as like a black carbon. The wood grip (full tang, 2 pins) is in poor condition tool.

I would like to restore it. The reason he gave me the knife is because he is getting on in years and is starting to give away his possessions. We just smile and say thank you but obviously we know he is thinking about his own mortality. I think it'd be nice if I could refinish the knife and show it to him so that he'll know that I will keep it for a long time.

I am a bit lost, I've never done this before, and I probably don't even have the best tools for it (no grinder, no belt sander, no planer, I don't even own a vise).

Firstly, how do I clean up the blade? I have tried some metal polishes and abrasives I have, and they've gotten off the minor surface damage, but the big black spots (I'll post a picture tommorow) it isn't really making a dent on. I was going to try sanding it with my oscillating sander unless someone tells me that is a really bad idea.

Then, the grip, how do I remove it? Any trick or just kind of chisel it off?

I want to use african blackwood for the grip. It is extremely dense so should resist staining (I do plan to use the knife in the kitchen) and very (very) heavy, so should help balance the huge weight of the blade. I know I can buy some online.

What I guess I was thinking to do was cut it to the right thickness on my table saw, use my jig saw I guess to cut the shape of the grip out (I wish I had a bandsaw... so much), router the edges to round them off, drill two holes for the pins, and sand (wish I had a belt sander - one day when I have more room I'll have a full workshop).

I'm not sure what the pins are. Do I make them from a rod or dowel of some sort? Are they a special part you buy from like a knife maker supply store? Any tricks to getting a secure fit?

Then I guess epoxy and clamps because I don't have a vise, right?

Then... I cut the excess of the pins off and sand it to make it smooth. What is the best tool for that... especially to avoid marring the wood grip while you do it?

[Chris]

Oh... and do you think I shouldn't be trying to make a family heirloom as my first attempt at this sort of thing and instead just find someone more experienced to do it? I'd hate to mess it up.

[crashdive123]

Chris - if the cleaver has any historical significance, I would not try to polish the patina from the blade. If you do decide to restore it, you'll probably want to remove the existing handles first (agian, if there is any historical significance, you may not want to). To remove the handles, you'll probably need to drill out the existing pins and then you should be able to separate the handle from the tang with a chisel and some light tapping with a hammer. Hand sanding with will remove any imperfections in the blade (but take some time). Start with a 220 (120 may be too aggressive if there is not pitting) then progress to 320, 400, 600, etc. When hand sanding I finish with a 1500 grit or higher. Before you start working on the handle, cover up the blade with paper and masking tape (you'd hate to scratch it after all that work). Cut it as close as you can with your jigsaw then glue and pin them to the tang. Use files and sand paper to finish. Camp10 just posted a video on stabalizing wooden handles. The process he uses is pretty simple, and I highly recommend using stabilized wood. If not, there are other treatments that can be applied.

[Chris]

Also no drill press, not to tough to drill out the pins with a hand power drill? I imagine that is going to be pretty difficult judging from my previous experience drilling into metals. Unless pins are typically made of a soft metal (I assume its steel I guess).

I don't think there is any historical significance to the knife, other than to me, and I want it functional so I can use it.

[crashdive123]

Also no drill press, not to tough to drill out the pins with a hand power drill? I imagine that is going to be pretty difficult judging from my previous experience drilling into metals. Unless pins are typically made of a soft metal (I assume its steel I guess).

I don't think there is any historical significance to the knife, other than to me, and I want it functional so I can use it.

I'd have to see a picture. A lot of old cleavers used brass pins or screws (pretty soft). If it's not something you want to tackle, I'd be happy to give it a go - but it might be a few more months before I get enough use out of my right arm to get back to working on knives.

[Pocomoonskyeyes3]

Chris while you might not think it has Historical importance, You still might want to ask him of his history of it. I mean if he got it from HIS Grand Dad, it Could be older than you think.

As for the tools you have available, you might want to get a 4 in 1 wood rasp, just to speed the shaping of the handle. Power tools are NOT necessary. Some people use NO Power tools in making a knife and they are Pure ART! Nothing but hand tools touch them, hacksaw,files,and sandpaper. It just takes longer,but gives you more control over what you do as it is slower.

I also agree with Crash about a photo to see it better.

[mountain1]

man your making me tear up.
just clean it up maybe, but don't change it.
those old family heriloms CANNOT be replaced. keep them as they are and remember where they came from.

[Winter]

A cleaver gives you tons of room.

An Heirloom is something handed to you and you are inform of it's heirloomness, lol.

[Chris]

It isn't a heirloom yet, I merely mean it to be. I think the best way to honor an item is to continue to use it, and right now its just not in condition to be used. If I can restore it and then take care of it and pass it on to my son or grandson, then it can be a heirloom.

Anyways, its a Foster Bros 290, looks like that company went out of business in 1954 so it is at least that old.

I might try to save the wood handle if I can clean it up, but it is pretty stained, and even looks like someone scrawled on it with a green marker in one part, it is going to take a lot of sanding. It would certainly be less work for me if I don't have to take it off and replace it.

[JPGreco]

First thing I would do is take some medium grit sand paper to the wood handle. See if the stains are only in the surface. If you can get those out, then take a lighter grit sand paper to the blade. It might all clean up and you luck out.

[mountain1]

well, if that is the case---pics man pics---
it is unfair to all, without knowing the true subject of which you speak:)

[Sarge47]

Chris, I also do some work on things around here, and when I was re-doing the handle on my late Father-in-Law's Ka-Bar I used a "C" clamp to clamp it down to an old wood TV tray table. I make padded, velvet covered table tops I sell to my fellow magicians at my "Magic" club & I don't have a workshop. I use an old wash tub in my yard for a work bench, an electric hand drill, and a circular saw for cutting. I have found ways to be resourceful when I have to be as I'm sure you will. Can't wait to see the pics!

[Camp10]

The handles are most likely held in place with rivets, just going by the age of it..you need to post a picture. If this is the case, you wont have to drill very deep (just through the head) to get the scales off the steel. With the wood off, take your oscillating sander and go over the entire piece of steel. The oscillating sander gives a nice, satin finish to the steel and you wont have to work through so many grits to make a nice finish. Start with 150 and work to about 400. If you want more shine, go to 1000 or 1500 grit.

Shaping a hard wood like blackwood will be a slow process without power tools but not impossible. I would put the new scales on with Chicago screws and epoxy. The chicago screws will give a more traditional look and you arent trying to shape pins by hand. Like Crash said, cover the metal with low tack tape before you mess with the handle and try to not use to much epoxy.

[Chris]

6264
6265
6266
6267

[Rick]

Here you go. Have you tried 0000 steel wool on the blade?

http://www.sotherden.net/FOSTER_KNIVES1.htm

[crashdive123]

Those are in great shape IMO. I did some searching of auction sites, and you may actually have something of value there. Some old cleavers were going for a few hundred dollars (some were going for about fifteen dollars as well). Personally, I would not touch the blade or handle until you are sure. Once you decide if you want to re-finish things or not, it looks like a fairly easy restoration.

[Camp10]

Well, thats not that bad at all Chris. I'd just steel wool it, sand and seal the handle (I use tung oil) and put it to work.

[Camp10]

Just as a reference, Chris..this is mine from my G grandfather and I think it is in great shape!! The handle is tight and it keeps sharp forever! I use it as it is.

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx21/hereisfine/100_0654.jpg

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx21/hereisfine/100_0657-1.jpg

[Chris]

Oh I've already started sanding it... even if it was worth $500 I wouldn't sell it. I found those auctions last night as well.

[crashdive123]

Chris, Here is a small one that I picked up at a yard sale that I plan on restoring. I consider this one to be in good shape, and yours looked much nicer (yours was much higher quality as well).

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii67/crashdive123/Knife%20Making/Cleaver001.jpg

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii67/crashdive123/Knife%20Making/Cleaver002.jpg

[Chris]

If you consider that good shape... well... yes I can see how you'd think mine would be.

I could see this being a fun hobby. Though, my wife tells me I have too many hobbies (and she is right, I have a very ambitious and curious mind). You can get these old well made cleavers for cheap, sand them, and put cool handles on them. Then gift them or sell them. Pay $20-$30 for materials all in, sell them for $200+ on Etsy.com or something, if you got a tent at some art festival you could probably even get as much as $300 or $400 in the right city. The fact that you're recycling the knife blades would also attract the green crowd into paying a premium. This is what my brain does all day long, spits out business ideas.

[crashdive123]

Admittedly, I look at rusted steel a little different than many. To me, rust adds character. Some of the materials I use are in the first pic. The knife in the second pic was made from the circular saw blade in the lower left of the first pic.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii67/crashdive123/Knife%20Making/Saws001.jpg

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii67/crashdive123/Knife%20Making/PurpleMicartaKnife2007.jpg

[Chris]

That is really pretty. I think the pitting can add character, but I'm not a fan of rust.

I do some leather crafting, I've seen someone with leather put it over the side of a big granite boulder and hammer it with a mallet, it puts random organic dimples into the leather not unlike the pits on that knife. It gives it a lot of character.

I think as a business, or for resale, doing cleavers specifically would be the best thing. Not everyone hunts or collects knives, or otherwise would appreciate a knife like that. But every kitchen needs a cleaver, and, moreso, almost no kitchen knife sets come with one.


My knife has the word NATO stamped into the wood of the grip. No, my grandfather was never in the armed forces, Google did not return any results indicating what it could be from.

[your_comforting_company]

I'm no knife maker, or even really a knife entheusiast, and I think your cleaver is in GREAT shape. If it were mine, I'd just sand the handles and refinish them with a nice stain and lacquer and enjoy the knife as it is.

It looks to me, as if someone handled it and then put it up with fingerprints on it. The acids in your fingers will act much like a tannin dye-bath and "black" some spots. I think it adds character, and I wouldn't change a thing, save to get the finish back on the handles. I think it's a very nice piece to keep and use, just like it is.

[Chris]

IF I am going to use it for food prep I want to make sure the blade is as free from damage as possible, so as to not provide little crevices where bacteria could grow.

[Pocomoonskyeyes3]

I also agree with the others Chris. As for the safety factor I would just finish the handles and use some Polyurethane to seal it As your main concern is with bacteria. Besides, if you decide to pass it on to future generations, keeping it as intact as possible only increases it's value, $ wise and sentimental wise. I'd just seal it, sharpen it, and use it.

[Winter]

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii67/crashdive123/Knife%20Making/Saws001.jpg



Your killing me here.

[aflineman]

As said before, I would just use some steel wool on the blade and leave the handles like they are.

[klkak]

Chris, just leave it the way it is and use it.

[panch0]

I agree, just clean up the handles.

[shiftyer1]

I've always been told that the black spots are a good thing and protect carbon blades from red rust. I agree with the others, just refinish the handle, the blade looks great already. I'd hate to have ya sand it all down and then you can't keep it from rusting :)
I just realized out of all the knives I own which is quite alot, I don't own a cleaver. HMMM time to start hitting flea markets and garage sales!

[crashdive123]

Too late everybody. He said he's already started sanding. Looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

[Brazito]

If it were mine I'd clean it up, make it look as good as possible. Since it's not for sale for sentimental reasons make it look the way you want. I have a knife equivalent to a filet knife that belonged to my grandmother that I'm trying to buff out the grinder marks from somebody that didn't know what they were doing. It may be older than dirt but can still look good if you want it to. Here's a link for buffing stuff:http://www.caswellplating.com/buffs/buffman.htm . I buff/clean-up all my old stuff 'cause that's how I want it. It's still priceless to me and that's all that matters.

[gina]

My mom has 3 butcher cleavers given to her by my grandfather that she wants to display. She asked my husband to clean them up for her but he doesn't want to sand the handles in case they are worth something. My father is a butch7546er and had the blades sharpened. Does anyone know how to clean up the handles without sacrificing the integrity of the piece?

[canid]

If the piece is rare or collectible, any restoration short of preventing further damage may complicate the valuation. generally speaking though; any restoration which does not itself do damage, or introduce non-original material will not hurt. e.g. proper fine sanding, refinishing the wood with the original or period correct sealer (shellac, etc.) and polishing is not likely to hurt. when in doubt; leave it alone.

[crashdive123]

My mom has 3 butcher cleavers given to her by my grandfather that she wants to display. She asked my husband to clean them up for her but he doesn't want to sand the handles in case they are worth something. My father is a butch7546er and had the blades sharpened. Does anyone know how to clean up the handles without sacrificing the integrity of the piece?

As has been said before - if there is a historical significance then I wouldn't do anything. Since the blade has already been sanded it probably no longer matters though. Hand sand with 400 grit and higher sand paper. It will take a while, but it's best not to be too aggressive when you're trying to restore a piece.

[Winter]

I'd clean those cleavers like I would any kitchen knife. That is their history and where the aging came from. Scrubber and soap, whatever comes off has done so repeatedly over the yrs.

[hunter63]

I guess I missed this thread here a while back, but one thing that i find interesting is the different ways everyone has of defining what looks good....LOL.

As a "buck-skinner",mountain man reenactor my tastes go more to the old, used and experienced blades and axes, to the point that I have used onion juice to add the patina to a fresh shinny blade so it looks good around camp....nothing says 'flat-lander" than a shiny blade.

That being said, I do like the beautiful work y'all do on your custom blades.....patina needs to come with use, or earned,.... as it were....and really like the blades made from "distressed steel'....Keep up the wonderful work.

[Skinner]

Your killing me here.

Every time He Posts these Pics I Say the Same thing .

[Skinner]

On the Cleaver Chris Just Sand and Steel Wool the Steel . And Use Danish Oil Or Teak Oil to Seal the Wood and Rub in a Few Coats Of Food Grae Minerial Oil .