The limitations of down jackets (AKA how I melted my jacket)

[jc1234]

In the winter, I am a big proponent of down jackets, for their warmth to weight ratio, packability, and ease of movement. I have a well loved L.L. Bean 850 fill down jacket that packs up into a size that would make my wife's smallest most fancy purse jealous. I was sitting by a campfire after a long day of hiking a few weeks back with my wife during high winds. She was wearing my N3B parka and was quite warm, while I Was wearing my down jacket. The next day during my hike, I noticed that I was leaving a trail of white plums. At first I thought it was my white dog shedding abnormally heavily, but then I realized that I had several burn holes in my jacket where ambers must have melted right through the material.

When I got home after the weekend of camping and hiking I called L.L. Bean to ask how the jacket would be patched (they warranty everything they sell, but they draw the line at fire damage). To my dismay, they told me that the fabric on the jacket, although ripstop is to thin to be patched and will likely rip it sewn together. In other words, I was SOL. I called REI who has a larger selection of jackets to see what they recommended, and that this issue is a major drawback of all packable down jackets and use an outer shell when near a campfire (one of those duh moments, because I should have thought of that). Anyway, I ended up buying a new less packable 700 fill jacket that is actually warmer and has slightly more durable fabric and will bring alone one of my rain shells during future winter trips for sitting around the fire.

So, while I still love the benefits of down, in a pure survival discussion it seems to me that wool would again win out even though it is heavier, not as water resistant, and can restrict movement more, it is reliable, can easily be repaired in the field and much more durable.

Does anyone know of other materials that may have a greater warmth to weight ratio than wool which are also extremely durable? Although Im happy with my new down jacket, Id love to find something in the future that was package and warm, but more resilient than the current down jackets offer.

[crashdive123]

I have patched a few down jackets and sleeping bags over the years with duct tape. It ain't pretty, but works well.

[jc1234]

I have patched a few down jackets and sleeping bags over the years with duct tape. It ain't pretty, but works well.

and it stays on for a while?

[Rick]

Those are probably pretty small holes? I would think Freesole or SeamGrip would close it. If it's more than a couple of centimeters you may have to stitch it to pull the edges together then cover with Freesole or SeamGrip. At least that's how I'd do it. If you lost very much loft you can buy down in small packages or sacrifice a down pillow.

[crashdive123]

Yes. I have a bag now that has had the same piece of tape on it for years. When I was in Seattle I suffered a pretty good rip in a jacket. I bought an old down pillow at a yard sale, re-stuffed my jacket, covered about a 4 inch tear with duct tape - I used that jacket every weekend in the winters while skiing.

[kyratshooter]

Seems every maker works to make the lightist, warmist jacket. As opposed to the heavy jacket of wool to reach the same warmth level.

Why not a down filled oilskin jacket? Durable and waterproof.

Just a thought.

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

LL Bean jacket fixed with Duck Tape! Now, that right there is funny! We use it all the time down south! It even comes in all kinds of colors!~

[jc1234]

Those are probably pretty small holes? I would think Freesole or SeamGrip would close it. If it's more than a couple of centimeters you may have to stitch it to pull the edges together then cover with Freesole or SeamGrip. At least that's how I'd do it. If you lost very much loft you can buy down in small packages or sacrifice a down pillow.

Very small holes, Ive never heard of either of those. I'll google them and check em out.


Yes. I have a bag now that has had the same piece of tape on it for years. When I was in Seattle I suffered a pretty good rip in a jacket. I bought an old down pillow at a yard sale, re-stuffed my jacket, covered about a 4 inch tear with duct tape - I used that jacket every weekend in the winters while skiing.

How much bigger than the hole is the patch of tape? Duct tape is great stuff, but Ive never known it to stick that well to fabric...maybe Im using cheap tape.


Seems every maker works to make the lightist, warmist jacket. As opposed to the heavy jacket of wool to reach the same warmth level.

Why not a down filled oilskin jacket? Durable and waterproof.

Just a thought.

Because in the winter I layer to keep from sweating and to stay warm. I need something that I can stuff into my dogs pack when I dont want it rather than have to carry it or tie it somewhere. I have a system down that works really well for me and I dont want to screw with it.


LL Bean jacket fixed with Duck Tape! Now, that right there is funny! We use it all the time down south! It even comes in all kinds of colors!~

Ya, but real men only use silver :D

[crashdive123]

How much bigger than the hole is the patch of tape? Duct tape is great stuff, but Ive never known it to stick that well to fabric...maybe Im using cheap tape.


Don't accept cheap imitations. The actual tape on the jacket was called EB Green (a heavy duty duct tape made popular in the Electric Boat shipyard in Groton, CT. It's about the same quality as the black Gorilla brand tape. The trick to longevity is to tape the inside of the tear so and then the outside. I have always extended the tape a couple of inches beyond the tear on all sides.

[finallyME]

If you wear a cotton shell, you won't get spark holes. You can also wear a wool shell.

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

Ya, but real men only use silver :D

Good one! I was amazed when at Lowes the other day they wanted 10 bucks for a silver roll! I waited and sure enough there was a new roll in the toolbox! Good stuff! 3M is the brand I usually use.

[JPGreco]

yeah, there are definitely different varieties of duct tape. Some suck, some are amazing. The more expensive rolls are definitely better and stick way better. I duct taped my soccer warm ups when they tore at the knee and it lasted years. In fact, I think the tape is still sticking if I dig them out and its been 10+ years.

[hunter63]

I have a blaze orange down vest that used to belong to my father, really old.
I only wear it during deer season, just because.

Had a small hole in the bottom corner close to the zipper, and I know what you mean about leaving a trail of down.
I too used duck tape, and over the years I had to replace it a couple of times, then finally stitched the tape thru the vest itself, from both sides.

Holding well, but that spot is sorta flat.

[Wise Old Owl]

Don't throw the old jacket out, bag all the down out of it, when you get a chance and more down becomes available, one can make an inexpensive sil nylon down cover for the bed or a backpack throw for ideas look at Jack's R Better products.

If you don't want it I will pay for shipping.

[LowKey]

Mom used to use patches of ripstop with flamed edges. you ran the patch through a candle to sear the threads together all around then stitched that on by hand with a really tight overlock stitch. If the jacket is old though, the material probably won't hold the patch. You might think about replacing the entire panel. Getting the down out in a manageable fashion is tricky. Mom used to put a nylon stocking inside the tube of the vacuum cleaner, roll the edge back and tape it to the outside. Suck out the down. When you go to replace it you invert it just like you do the plastic ones. You lose a good bit of it that you have to replace but you don't lose it all. I don't have to mention you should do this outside. :)

I stick with mostly flannel or canvas jackets now. But I can see you not wanting to lose the lightness of the down.

[hoosierarcher]

Wool need not be all that heavy to keep you warm. The trick is multiple is multiple just barely snug to very loose layers. Not only is wool warm it is naturally fire retardant. I have a friend that survived a cook stove explosion inside the tent he was laying on a cot he was wearing wool long johns. Unfortunately he had removed his wool socks to let them breath and so the only place he got burned was his feet. He was the only man wearing wool and they only one that lived that was in the tent. Search and rescue teams call polypropylene under wear "shrink wrap" because of how it reacts to fire. Nylon burns and melts and drips and causes anything it lands on to ignite. Polyester does much the same. Oh and have your ever smelt burning feathers? PEE YOU! So I wear wool when I want to be warm.

[RichJ]

^^^ Dang! Tell us a little more about that stove explosion. What in the world kind of stove explodes and kills people? How many died? What were the circumstances? Must have been a big tent if there were a bunch of people inside. I don't mean to be morbid or anything but some details might prevent something like that happening to any of us. Thanks.

[hoosierarcher]

^^^ Dang! Tell us a little more about that stove explosion. What in the world kind of stove explodes and kills people? How many died? What were the circumstances? Must have been a big tent if there were a bunch of people inside. I don't mean to be morbid or anything but some details might prevent something like that happening to any of us. Thanks.
I don't know the whole story. Grease caught fire and the guy doing the cooking stupidly through water from an unmarked white plastic 5 gallon jug onto the fire. Only it wasn't water it was kerosene for the camp lamps, etc. 3 clients of the hunting outfitter the cook that threw the kerosene and one pack mule burned to death from the eruption of kerosene and grease. The friend I mentioned had to have skin graphs on his feet. I haven't seen him in 2 years but at the time he couldn't wear shoes or socks for the health and healing of his feet and the graphs. Lots of lessons to be learned from this mishap. First of which is hire me to be the camp cook. I know how to handle a grease fire and I never store flammable liquids in unmarked containers. I also make delicious food. Sorry this isn't something I should make light of I suppose.