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View Full Version : Gun Weight-Pack Weight....????



Sourdough
01-04-2008, 10:40 PM
Why are people so phobic about weight...? Flyweight tents, wisperlite stoves, Scandium firearms, Ultralite pack. Yes, lighter is easier to carry, but generally not as sturdy. Would it not be better to shed 10# bodyweight, and carry higher quallity equipment. Me, I am both fat and lazy, so my dog packs my gear, Just kidding about the dog, but not about fat n' lazy.

Sarge47
01-04-2008, 10:43 PM
I agree with you, not everybody "backpacks". some of us travel in vehicles. Backpacking requires "down-sizing" gear to the lightest possible weight. It seems to me that if you go too far you find yourself sacrificing quality for Lighter weight gear.:eek:

Sourdough
01-04-2008, 11:04 PM
I am still using the same Kelty external frame pack I bought 40 years ago. I have up graded the belt and straps as higher quality became available.

Elkchsr
01-05-2008, 02:45 AM
I've worked my pack down to about 12-20 lbs for any type of environment

I'm working on getting it down to what I've got in my pockets; I still have a couple more bugs to work out and should be there... :)

Most people (me included only a few number of years ago) carry way to much stuff, I would guess 75% goes unused throughout the trip

Knowledge seems to be the key to going light

Now that doesn't mean I can't carry a heavy one

I train for fires by carrying 45-90 lbs for 7 miles keeping it in 15 minute miles at the heavier weight :)

Ole WV Coot
01-05-2008, 11:12 AM
I will shave weight on most things, but my knife & handgun NO. I made my own inside waistband holster for my '45 and it is very comfortable since it's my main carry gun and made a left side sheath for my old '60s USMC K-Bar. Two items I may have to depend on at any time, any place. I have lighter handguns but I don't see a S&W Mod. 60 worth much in the woods.

FVR
01-05-2008, 11:51 AM
It's not the weight, it's the balance.

I have a 12lb longgun and a 10lb longgun. Heavy, naaaa...........very well balanced. The same goes for the belt or sash.

If I'm packing the 1860 Army on my side, the opposite side needs the possibles pouch and knife.

Like life, balance is the key.

pgvoutdoors
01-05-2008, 12:03 PM
:rolleyes:
Why are people so phobic about weight...? Flyweight tents, wisperlite stoves, Scandium firearms, Ultralite pack. Yes, lighter is easier to carry, but generally not as sturdy. Would it not be better to shed 10# bodyweight, and carry higher quallity equipment. Me, I am both fat and lazy, so my dog packs my gear, Just kidding about the dog, but not about fat n' lazy.

A VERY GOOD TOPIC!!!!!!!! This can be approached from a variety of viewpoints. The main thing is what is the goal of the activity the outdoorsman is trying to achieve? Then what is his physical capabilities? What is his equipment options, distance traveling, and means of traveling?

The lighter the load without compromising your needed equipment is very important if on foot. This obviously lowers the burden on the trekker allowing for a more comfortable trek. This can also extend the distance per day a person may travel. A hunter for example would consider the pack load if he anticipated returning with game.

Weather/seasons are a major consideration. Many people head out improperly prepared for foreseeable weather condition. Cold weather requires warmer clothing in which can lead to a heavier load. There are options like down jackets that offer superb protection from the colder conditions (0 f and below) without adding a lot of weight.

First we need to look at individual activities; backpacking, hunting, fishing, etc. and approach each activity by our unique skills and experiences.

Sourdough
01-05-2008, 01:18 PM
:rolleyes:

A VERY GOOD TOPIC!!!!!!!! This can be approached from a variety of viewpoints. The main thing is what is the goal of the activity the outdoorsman is trying to achieve? Then what is his physical capabilities? What is his equipment options, distance traveling, and means of traveling?

The lighter the load without compromising your needed equipment is very important if on foot. This obviously lowers the burden on the trekker allowing for a more comfortable trek. This can also extend the distance per day a person may travel. A hunter for example would consider the pack load if he anticipated returning with game.

Weather/seasons are a major consideration. Many people head out improperly prepared for foreseeable weather condition. Cold weather requires warmer clothing in which can lead to a heavier load. There are options like down jackets that offer superb protection from the colder conditions (0 f and below) without adding a lot of weight.

First we need to look at individual activities; backpacking, hunting, fishing, etc. and approach each activity by our unique skills and experiences.

Good points, I agree.....Here is what I don't understand. I understand the Minimalist outdoorsman (I ain't one), but I like that they do what they do. I am in aww of the Guy who can be dropped off anywhere in a rubberized loincloth, a few tools and stay alive. I get that end of the spectrum.

I get what I do, which is get dropped off from a Super Cub in wilderness Alaska with a camp on my back and some food, eat fish and birds. Two weeks later the Super Cub driver finds me, gives me some backpackable supplies, makes sure I am not hurt, and flies away. This can continue for weeks or months.

What I want to hear from is all the people in between. Or the outdoors people not in between but more extream. I get why the people who run up Mt. McKinley or Mt. Everest want ultra-light gear.

Why is most of the outdoor equipment marketed, and designed as if the most important factor for everyone is light weight....?

Rick
01-05-2008, 01:18 PM
PGV, FVR are both on mark once again. It depends on your need and the balance of your equipment. In the book Build the Perfect Survival Kit, John McCann discusses the M6 survival rifle then sets about modifying and altering it. That really confused me because it completely changes the balance of the weapon.

In my mind, a weapon serves a dual purpose, personal protection and food procurement. If you start altering the design then you impact the function. If you use that weapon a lot then change it, by adding paracord as the author did, then your training on that weapon has to start all over again because it's no longer the same weight and balance.

All of us have treked some distance with a pack that wasn't balanced correctly. Your personal physical balance will make the adjustments to a pack that is out of balance often resulting in tired, strained or pulled muscles. As your pack pulls you backward, you automatically lean forward to compensate and that changes the weight on back and leg muscles. You either force those muscles to work at angles they have not trained to work at or you overtax muscles that normally are not load bearing when walking.

Rick
01-05-2008, 01:44 PM
By the way Hopeak. Where do you buy your rubberized loincloths?:eek:

Sarge47
01-05-2008, 01:44 PM
A gun is only as good as the shooter, and only as long as the ammo holds out, then it's just a high-priced club!:eek::cool:

pgvoutdoors
01-05-2008, 01:54 PM
Why is most of the outdoor equipment marketed, and designed as if the most important factor for everyone is light weight....?[/QUOTE]

;)The main word in that sentence is Marketed! The outdoor recreation business has taken advantage of the introduction of many new metal alloys and plastics available on the manufacturing market. People look to buy performance in everything they buy; car, gun, backpack, sleeping bag, and yes even a monocular.:) We love it! But the sad fact is that we don't always buy what we need. I've owned a outfitter business and worked for others. Beside the inter desire to have the best performing gadget, many people look for a shortcut to experience though technology. They figure if the equipment is better then they are better.:confused:

I personally own a broad verity of equipment, from primitive to high-tech. It's all great and it all has it's place in my outdoor activities.

Set a goal and equip for it!

Sourdough
01-05-2008, 01:56 PM
If I ruled the world.....REI would have 30% of products Super light weight for Mountain climbing....... 30% would be industrial strength for Base camp or Backyard....... And 40% all for me, the general purpose klan. I bet your glad I don't rule the world. Me also......

wildWoman
01-05-2008, 05:36 PM
I think a lot of the outoor gear gets lighter, more breathable, with more pockets, whatever, mostly so the companies that make the stuff can sell more. When I first started backpacking, I had really crappy gear, then started replacing that with good (=expensive) gear. A lot of which was at the end of its life after about 5 seasons' use. Now that we actually live out in the bush and every songle walk we take is bushwhacking, and I kayak out into town, my gear is totally different. It weighs more than the fancy expensive minimalist gear but either lasts longer r was much cheaper. The vast majority of camping clothing I buy at second hand stores, seeing no point in shelling out $200.- for a jacket that'll be waterproof and breathable for a few years if I can get one for $10.- that still works, if only for a year or two. I also like waxed canvas tarps a lot better that all this plastic stuff.

RBB
01-05-2008, 06:12 PM
Why are people so phobic about weight...? Flyweight tents, wisperlite stoves, Scandium firearms, Ultralite pack. Yes, lighter is easier to carry, but generally not as sturdy. Would it not be better to shed 10# bodyweight, and carry higher quallity equipment. Me, I am both fat and lazy, so my dog packs my gear, Just kidding about the dog, but not about fat n' lazy.

I don't agree. On the trail, light is good. You can go lighter, just by leaving things behind, or you can go the titanium route (if you have lots of money).

As to guns, I have been looking at a "snake eyes" 20 ga. Small and portable, it breaks down to something you can pack. Unless you are in brown bear country, or it's deer, moose, or bear hunting season, there isn't much reason to carry more. In brown bear country I carry a short barrel 12 gage pump. There is no pistol I'd trust against a brown bear - over a 12 gage.

As to packs - as most of our trips are by canoe, we use Duluth packs. Made of canvas and harness leather, they are not light, but they last well and are good for portaging and for getting in and out of canoes. I have about a dozen of them, and the oldest ones I inherited from my grandfather, a 1928 and a 1936 model. If you have a pack you can put in your will - it's a good pack!

Last Mohican
01-05-2008, 06:16 PM
Do they make lightweight 6 qt dutch ovens? ;^) Just kidding.
I always try to carry enough extra water to keep me going just in case it's hard to find in a particular area, usually a gallon or two. At + or - 8 lbs. a gallon, the weight can add up pretty quick. I guess you just have to weigh the pros and cons and decide what is more important in any given situation.

granite
01-05-2008, 06:56 PM
I'm an ultralighter, even in winter w/o H2O i am down to 15-20 lb. w/food. On trail I like to average 20-30 miles per day on the mountain, bushwhack 10 miles. I can't do that with 50 pounds on my back. Some people aren't happy unless they have a 4 season tent and enough guns and ammo to take out an army, but some of us just like to get to Point B ASAP.

Sourdough
01-06-2008, 11:34 PM
By the way Hopeak. Where do you buy your rubberized loincloths?:eek:

Rick, Rubberized loincloths are for REAL men. As stated I wear 14.5 Oz. Carhartt Loggers. I have nothing but the highest respect for people who are trained in the Art of Survival with few, or no tools. That is one school I never wanted anything to do with. Like Inspector Callahan (Dirty Harry) said, "A Man has got to know his limits".

Sarge47
01-07-2008, 12:37 AM
I'm an ultralighter, even in winter w/o H2O i am down to 15-20 lb. w/food. On trail I like to average 20-30 miles per day on the mountain, bushwhack 10 miles. I can't do that with 50 pounds on my back. Some people aren't happy unless they have a 4 season tent and enough guns and ammo to take out an army, but some of us just like to get to Point B ASAP.

If I can pack in the Buick, it's going with!:D:D:D

Rick
01-07-2008, 09:48 AM
Well, Hopeak.....I guess the upside is they'd be waterproof. Too funny.

Beo
01-07-2008, 10:46 AM
Like FVR I have two long guns, flintlocks both, weighing in at 10 and 11 pounds but they are very well balanced in weight and I don't feel the weight for several hours but it all depends on how you carry them. I always travel light when going into the forests and riverbottoms around here no matter how long I go for. An oil cloth diamond shelter and ground cloth, wool blanket if its cold, and other items I carry in a haversack or snapsack (FVR knows what I'm talking about here) and my possibles bag. Trekking like they did in the old days nothing modern in our group. An old cotton hunting shirt and a capote if its cold, I wear a pair of french button fly breeches, brain tanned deer skin leggings (or canvas if I want a change) and wool leggings in the winter, I wear moc's all year round, a pair from footskins in the summer, and LIGONIER MOCCASINS or pac shoes in the winter. If the snow is real deep I use a pair of snowshoes, I have a pair of Ojibwe from Faber snowshoes and if I really need hard core winter shoes I will wear a pair Steger Moosehide Mukluks I just got.

Sourdough
01-07-2008, 11:41 AM
Well, Hopeak.....I guess the upside is they'd be waterproof. Too funny.

Rick, Waterproof works both ways......."Depends"

Beo
01-07-2008, 03:18 PM
What I usually wear and take when trekking:
Shirt: Cotton Hunting Shirt
Leggings: Deer Skin that is brain tanned, wool in winter
Garters (hand woven or leather strip)
Sash: Hand Woven (not a belt)
Breeches: French Button Fly
Moccasins
Capote if cold weather
Knife
Hawk/Hatchet
Haversack or Snapsack: Canvas with 36-inch tumpline with the following items inside: Tin Cup, Castile Soap, Candle, Sewing & fishing kit, Whetstone, Bag of parched corn & jerky, Tea Block, Pouch of tobacco and pipe, Patch knife, Forged fork & Spoon, leather thongs (straps 36 in. in length)

Possibles Bag: Waterproof canvas or Leather, holding the following items inside: Frizzen Stall, Bullet Bag, Cow’s Knee, Priming Horn,Leather Flint Packet (5 pieces of flint), Tin of bees wax & tallow, Forged Screwdriver, Bag of tow, Loading block (tied to strap of possibles bag) Vent Pick & Brush combo tool, Pouch with different ramrod tips, tow strips, & paper cartridges (10 each), forged ladel and block of lead

Belt Pouch: Holding the following items: Flint striker & char cloth, cattail fluff, and bark tinder in tin. Candle

Powder Horn attched to possible bag
Flintlock: French Fusil de Chasse (Tulle) or Brown Bess
Bedroll: Canvas Diamond shelter (waterproofed 10x10-Lowes Paint Cloth) Wool blanket (4x6) not used in summer months
Canvas ground cloth (waterproofed 4x5)
The diamond shelter is laid out flat with ends folded in, ground cloth is folded to fit next, then the wool blanket (if needed) and rolled tightly and tied with two leather straps, the leather shoulder strap is used as a tumpline.
Canteen: Round Gourd Canteen w/ leather strap

This is what I use for trekking and camping as does my son and the group I trek with. Some items are not taken depending on the season.

Rick
01-07-2008, 03:25 PM
How can you possibly carry stuff on your head? Doesn't that strain your neck?

Beo
01-07-2008, 03:31 PM
What? Nothing on my head but Toque

Rick
01-07-2008, 03:34 PM
But a tumpline is a strap across the top of the head used to carry loads. What's your definition?

http://previous.cmc.org/cmc/tnt/no950/tumpline.html

Beo
01-07-2008, 03:42 PM
It can be used that way but its nothing more than a shoulder strap.
http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/7366/snapsack1dd9.th.jpg (http://img174.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snapsack1dd9.jpg)This is a snapsack and the strap is a tumpline. It goes cross wise across the back. Although this one is stuffed full to show what it can carry.
And below is a Haversack, heavy canvas with tumpline strap carried the same way, it is 10x15 on a 36 in strap
http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/3698/haversackwg5.th.png (http://img299.imageshack.us/my.php?image=haversackwg5.png)

Rick
01-07-2008, 03:46 PM
Okay, I'm with you. Sherpa or not, I couldn't see carrying anything on you head but your hair.:rolleyes:

Beo
01-07-2008, 03:53 PM
Guess you could if ya wanted to work out your neck muscles. Tumpline is a name we use to carry things with, usually a leather strap.

Sourdough
01-07-2008, 09:26 PM
Guess you could if ya wanted to work out your neck muscles. Tumpline is a name we use to carry things with, usually a leather strap.

I thought you guys was'a talking bout' dat' dar' card game where'n you's a trump da uder fella', and it was kind'a like ya get a line of trumps.

FVR
01-07-2008, 09:38 PM
You can keep them thar trump lines around your neck and head. I'll just throw it over my back. Hate to have a pulled neck muscle on a trek.