building with logs

[wareagle69]

so i am building a log shed, a practice run for a cabin, althought they both may end of the same size, the shed at this point is about 21ft by 21ft.
what i run into is the idea of doing this primitive, which is to say that i am using an axe and hand saw and nothing else.
the problem is cutting trees in 21ft lenghts,the resulting logs are several hundred pounds when using 8in diameter logs, could use 4in diamter logs but it takes a crap load more of them and also i am thinking of an insulating factor.
So what i have come up with is vertical logs ranging any where from 10ft to 8ft for a sloping roof, it sure makes hauling them out of the bush on my shoulders allot easier.
i saw this done on a show a few years ago about a year long stay in the manitoba wilds, to me it makes sense instead of trying to haul out 21ft logs, cuz even when dry they are a bugger to move and distance..

Has anyone else tried this method?

[crashdive123]

Sounds like a good project. Sure wish you could post pictures.

[BENESSE]

I'm trying to visualize this.
How do you get the logs up to form a sloping roof with just an axe and a hand saw?
How do you actually lift them?

[Rick]

Can't you use your horses to drag them?

[crashdive123]

B - I'll take a picture from a book I have on building a log cabin.

[crashdive123]

Here's a pretty simple method (albeit time consuming) of placing logs on upper levels.

[BENESSE]

How do you pull the log all the way up?

[crashdive123]

The two ropes are secured on the opposite wall and then run under the log you want to bring to the top. The two angled logs, labeled skids in the picture act as a ramp. By pulling the two ropes from the center (from the opposite wall) you pull the log up the ramp until it rests on your new level. Once there, you can notch it and roll it into place.

[BENESSE]

How much strength do you need to pull it?
Could two people in a reasonably good shape do it, you think?

[wareagle69]

I'm trying to visualize this.
How do you get the logs up to form a sloping roof with just an axe and a hand saw?
How do you actually lift them?

have not gotten to the roof yet, but everything i have done so far is just brute strength and tenacity
i used some 8ft and 10ft logs to begin with to make horizontal walls, did not like it so now i am going with the vertical walls, but it is easy to cut the log at an angle to slope it

[crashdive123]

How much strength do you need to pull it?
Could two people in a reasonably good shape do it, you think?

Yes, depending on the size of the logs. Block and tackle or come along work. Horses or mules work better. Of course WE is a big guy that can probably throw around more weight than many of us - so that would work too.

[wareagle69]

interesting pic crash, thanks

[crashdive123]

I did help build a log building when I live in the PNW. That's the method we used for lifting them. The cool thing is that you can bring four logs up, roll them around relatively easy, notch them and place them - then bring up four more.

[BENESSE]

What would you use to notch them?
Knife, axe, or something else?

[wareagle69]

the actaul building with the logs is not much of concern strenght wise, its the transporting of them over several hundred yards, the longer the log the better for building but, 10ft is easier to transport, althought i have thought about using a fall arrest harness and a lanyard and pulling it up out of the valley to my shed spot, that may work.

[wareagle69]

What would you use to notch them?
Knife, axe, or something else?

do not have to notch with the vertical logs, the frame is dug into the ground 3ft the the walls are just on top of the ground vertically, i am using some 10 nails tho

[crashdive123]

What would you use to notch them?
Knife, axe, or something else?

The one I built was a different style than what WE is doing. I notched them (square notch) with a chain saw (I guess I cheated).

[wareagle69]

too cheap to buy a chain saw crash, plus i just don't like the noise, am buying a cross cut saw and a rip saw for christmas tho, same price a an expensive chainsaw, but quieter and i don't mind the labor

[crashdive123]

The guy that was showing me how had built several. He was pretty good with a broad axe and hatchet for cutting round notches.

WE - you probably don't have the same issues that I do down here with bugs, but are you peeling the logs first? If you've got wood eating bugs, peeling will help prolong your structure.

[randyt]

here's a couple photos of a cabin I built a few years ago. it's 16' by 20'. I pulled the logs out with a atv but I have built cabins from logs pulled with horses and mules. there is a method the french canadians call piece-en-piece, the logs are horizontal but short like 10 feet or so. there is a beam between each stack of logs, sorta like a post and beam except the corners are saddle notched.

I moved some of my logs around the cabin by taking a 5 foot pry bar and a chain to lever them into position before I lifted them.


here's a gantry crane I used to set my logs.
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/randytlee/000_0494.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/randytlee/100_2936.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/randytlee/100_0126.jpg
here's a little 10 by 9 storage shed I built from blow down.
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh227/randytlee/100_3194.jpg

[randyt]

I wanted to add a couple comments. In my opinion a fella is probably better off to build a few smaller cabins especially in remote locations. they are easier to build and if there is a fire there is a place left to shack up.

[crashdive123]

Nice pictures Randyt.

[Alaskan Survivalist]

A cant hook and atv ramps that can roll logs up on to trailer.

http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg346/akmofo/IMG_0782.jpg

Another thing is a rope winch much like a comalong but you can use any lenght 1/2 inch rope. Poly line that does not stretch is recommended. Some I have is rated at 2600 pounds. Axes can cut good notchs but you don't want a double bit for the job. You can chop in rough shape but you will want one flat on the back side so you can precisely set ax on wood and then drive it in kind of like batoning with a knife.

http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg346/akmofo/IMG_1116.jpg

Myself I would rather have one chainsaw than two handsaws and I also use a chainsaw powered winch. You may also be able to rig a log arch similar to this one if you are dead set on doing everything by hand.

http://logrite.com/juniorarch.html

[crashdive123]

That Junior Arch looks right handy.

[Alaskan Survivalist]

I've used the ATV sized ones and they work very well and get in some tight areas. WE has the right idea wanting to deal with smaller logs and I prefer to take it a step further and 2 or 3 side logs with a chainsaw so short lenghts can be stacked to any lenght wall. I did a vertical stacked log cabin once and it was fast and easy but long walls were wobbly so I stacked logs horozontally in corners to brace it and ran the walls in between vertical.

[Rick]

Another tool that's helpful if you have a second person to help is a two man timber carrier. Make certain you have one with a swivel. It make the job a lot easier.

http://www.northerntool.com/images/product/images/119033_lg.jpg

[wareagle69]

i thought about using half logs, in an overlapping, kind of like stacking hay bales, maybe 3 to start at the bottom then continue with two as the wall goes up so the joints overlap and the weight locks them in, have you tried that AS

[wareagle69]

The guy that was showing me how had built several. He was pretty good with a broad axe and hatchet for cutting round notches.

WE - you probably don't have the same issues that I do down here with bugs, but are you peeling the logs first? If you've got wood eating bugs, peeling will help prolong your structure.

we have a bug called the white headed somethingoranother,looked it up the other day,memory is going,but you can hear it chewing under the bark
This all started by cutting spruce and cedar for fence posts and rails, the posts are 8 to 10 in and rails 4in then hauling back up to the house i have about 6 acres of lawn and pasture and i want to fence off the last acre in front so i don't have to mow anymore, also more grazing area for the horses since the bush would be allot of work to clear.
i needed a way to dry over the winter and also to build walls around my wood pile to keep out the snow.
i peel the cead easy enough but the spruce and fir suck to peel, i have an old draw knife that works great but the resin gets everywhere, all over me as i sprays while peeling, but it also seems to dry fine with the bark on as long as i get it off the ground
as we don't have allot of bugs that eat the trees i found it easier to just replace a log ifn i have to, but it was an interesting experience peeling the spruce and fir

[randyt]

I helped a fella and his family build a 20 by 40 log cabin one fall. his boys pulled the logs out with a team of mules. the logs were red cedar and were cut to random lengths. I helped lay the logs on the wall. some of the logs were short so he just butted the logs up, toe nailed them with pole barn spikes and and kept on laying the walls up. the corners were rough notched. that was nearly 30 yer ago. other than some improvements like a tin roof, cement over the dirt floor and a few additions the cabin looks like it did thirty years ago. also it has been lived in since. I guess the point of my rambling is that we didn't use full length logs.

[wareagle69]

thats what i was thinking toenailing with 6in spikes

[Alaskan Survivalist]

i thought about using half logs, in an overlapping, kind of like stacking hay bales, maybe 3 to start at the bottom then continue with two as the wall goes up so the joints overlap and the weight locks them in, have you tried that AS

That is why I two or three side logs. I demonstrated it in this thread. They stack easy when they are the same size. http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?t=11218

[wareagle69]

welp i spent the afternoon cutting down spruce trees, cut into 11ft lenghts trees are 6" wide at bottom, i think using 6by 6 center posts then use the 11 footers on either side to make a 22ft wall, combine a tight fit in between the posts and some nails toenailed in should work out enough to keep the snow out of the wood shed, then in springtime i can take down easy enough and the spruce will be my fence rails