Climbing Gear Kit

[Alaskan Survivalist]

Climbing Gear Kit

This is an area of interest for me but I am a complete novice and post this to start a conversation and pick your brains and learn from more experienced climbers. I started climbing while gold prospecting as a way to reach high banks of canyon walls. Later as crevasse rescue on glaciers. I’ve never had an interest in climbing tall mountain peaks or testing myself against the mountain. For some survivalists the wilderness is something to be rescued from or endured for a limited time but for me it is my refuge and civilization that needs to be escaped. From this perspective being able to over come obstacles using climbing gear will leave less prepared far behind. It makes more sense to me than arming myself to defend against marauding hoards. I use it to rappel steep banks down to water and back out. Sarge raised a legitimate concern on another thread about elderly and less able members of a group and climbing gear will aide their movement on grades that may not be challenging but very difficult for them. I use it to climb trees, haul equipment up steep grades and just this week end to climb on my roof to install a chimney. I hope you will see the value of this topic.

My ice climbing and snow gear is rather bulky and not included as it is rather bulky, and not always used together so I have this kit separate. Minus rope it all fits in this 6x6 MOLLE pouch.

http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg346/akmofo/IMG_1296.jpg

Far left in the picture below I have a wired stopper set that is wedged into cracks in the rock as an anchor. There is also a tool to on the carabineer that holds them together to pry them out. This is a basic beginners set and there are larger sizes and other designs that are more expensive. At my level of climbing I just use wedge rocks into larger cracks and anchor to them. Next are my carabineers. There are many designs and the 2 top ones are D locking carabineers. They are stronger because load is carried off center putting less strain on gate that is the weak point. It has been suggested to me that all carabineers that carry your weight should be locking to prevent accidental opening. Below that is a locking oval carabineer. This can be used for rappelling or belay using a Munter hitch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munter_hitch) and is needed for use with my Tibloc ascender. The 2 below that have a standard gate that just swings open I use for speed like after a fall has been arrested. Next is a figure 8. It is used for rappelling and a belay device. This is old school and there are better designs available but my choice because it works with wider range of rope sizes. The large loop for fast rappelling and the small end used for slower more controlled descents. Below that is my climbing harness. Most dedicated climbers use padding on their climbing harness but on glaciers I wear heavy clothing but even on the short climbs I do I often wish I had some padding. Next are my ascenders for climbing rope. I love the Tibloc that is used with a carabineer for its light weight and small size. If a person is on a budget a prussic knot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prusik) will accomplish the same task but not as easy to use. Below that I have a pulley to double my strength to lift gear or possibly an injured companion.

http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg346/akmofo/IMG_1297.jpg

I don’t always bring this kit but if I anticipate even a steep grade on a hike I will bring some rope, a couple carabineers and the Tibloc. These few items increase my capability tremendously.

http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg346/akmofo/IMG_1298.jpg

I know how important it is to be able to climb rough terrain. Here comes the controversial part. This is why I rate Bear Grylles as the best survivalist because of his mobility.

[NCO]

My climbing experience is limited to childhoods tree houses, but the gear sure looks nice...

[Rick]

I think it's a very valid thread. My climbing has been limited to poles but I can sure tell you the first rule. Never listen for the click of the rope in the carabiner. Make certain you SEE it. I've known guys that have snapped their safety to their lineman's pliers. Had they not looked to ensure it was in place they would have been in for a rude surprise.

That small amount of gear gives you a tremendous amount of options even aside from climbing. Those two carabiners and the triloc can be used with a rope to make a pulley system. Climbers call them a slack line but you can do the same thing vertically.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18qbgwCn2ZA

Here's one for a bear bag:

http://www.princeton.edu/~oa/images/manual/15marrison.gif

If it makes your life easier then go for it!!!!

Nice post.

[NCO]

Thank you Rick! Always useful info when not talking about knives! We really don't have any mountains or such here, barring Lapland, but that rule and the food sack idea is good to know. Offers a lot of applications. I was thinking of taking this repelling(rapelling?) course at some point, but they seem to want me to pay for it...

[doug1980]

Not really sure what I'm looking at but it's cool. Never did any climbing nor had the desire, only thing I ever did was scale a few walls in Basic Training and a Pole for the "afraid of heights test" in Tech School. I passed by the way. :)

[canid]

that's a nice basic gear set. i would add some slings of various lengths. you don't need to use quickdraws [so you still save space] if you don't anticipate using all of them at once, but having various lengths of slings you can attatch to your pro with a cow hitch and one of your biners at the other end, you have the same ability to modify the angle of force in the event of a fall.

the extra couple of degrees of angle can make the difference between placement that will hold and placement that won't.

i don't get to climb these days and my gear sadly consists only of a harness and an ATC at present. i really miss big-tree climbing.

[Alaskan Survivalist]

that's a nice basic gear set. i would add some slings of various lengths. you don't need to use quickdraws [so you still save space] if you don't anticipate using all of them at once, but having various lengths of slings you can attatch to your pro with a cow hitch and one of your biners at the other end, you have the same ability to modify the angle of force in the event of a fall.

the extra couple of degrees of angle can make the difference between placement that will hold and placement that won't.

i don't get to climb these days and my gear sadly consists only of a harness and an ATC at present. i really miss big-tree climbing.

What lenghts would you suggest? Could a daisy chain be used instead?

[SARKY]

Nice kit, mine is similar. My figure 8 has ears (I prefer that type) and I have 2 pulleys. I noticed only 1 ascender, is that correct? I carry 2 in my kit. But then i've had to do free vertical ascents. Do you have a dedicated rope bag?

[Alaskan Survivalist]

Nice kit, mine is similar. My figure 8 has ears (I prefer that type) and I have 2 pulleys. I noticed only 1 ascender, is that correct? I carry 2 in my kit. But then i've had to do free vertical ascents. Do you have a dedicated rope bag?

The Tibloc serves as my second ascender. I guess I should admit it now, I use leaded 3/8 ground line left over from my commercial halibut longlining days. It's rated to 2600 pounds and I use it for skiding logs with my winch also. It's tough stuff and dirt and rain have no affect on it. There is no stretch to it. I am not recomending it nor do I have enough experience or knowledge to really suggest what kind of rope to use. I just have close to a mile of the stuff and can't see spending the money for climbing rope.

[Sarge47]

I don't climb! If there's no trees that means there's no Oxygen & no way to build a fire 'cuz there's no wood or O2. However, my kid brother has summited both Mt. Fuji in Japan & Mt. Kilimanjaro in S. Africa. He's been wanting to climb this one but the wife refuses to give permission: http://alpineascents.com/aconcagua.asp?google&gclid=CJeB0pfh3aMCFZBd2god0mD0Qg :cool2:

Be sure & take plenty of booze! :innocent:

[Alaskan Survivalist]

My brother in law has talked about wanting to climb that mountain. Way beyond my skill level or desire. Around here you often need climbing gear to get off the beach at sea level so it's not just for high altitutes. You don't want to drink at high altitute. It hits you like a ton of bricks!

[canid]

between 6 and 24" would be good, though 6 and 12" are probably the most useful.

daisy chains are a great option, if the loops are load bearing.

[Rick]

AS - I don't know anything about that rope but will tell you that ropes designed primarily for sport climbing must provide a soft catch and be durable, while not having too much elongation. Not having a soft catch capability can lead to some pretty serious injuries if you do happen to fall. You can certainly acquire them with climbing rope as well but, hopefully, you won't find that sudden stop quite so sudden with climbing rope. I do understand about the cost, by the way. You can easily pay out 3 bills for 150 feet.

[Alaskan Survivalist]

between 6 and 24" would be good, though 6 and 12" are probably the most useful.

daisy chains are a great option, if the loops are load bearing.

Thanks, I'll try the slings the way you suggest first.

I have a small out cropping a 100 yards from the house to try stuff out.

http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg346/akmofo/IMG_0890.jpg

[Alaskan Survivalist]

AS - I don't know anything about that rope but will tell you that ropes designed primarily for sport climbing must provide a soft catch and be durable, while not having too much elongation. Not having a soft catch capability can lead to some pretty serious injuries if you do happen to fall. You can certainly acquire them with climbing rope as well but, hopefully, you won't find that sudden stop quite so sudden with climbing rope. I do understand about the cost, by the way. You can easily pay out 3 bills for 150 feet.

I did some checking into it and honestly was getting confused. It seems they use different rope for different situations. And yes the price! I don't do long leads and stay snugged up pretty good.

[canid]

yeah, i'm not a fan of static line. they can actually make load bearing equipment that would otherwise hold fail in a fall.

http://www.spadout.com/w/climbing-ropes/

[jgcoastie]

The very first thing I would change is the type of carabiners that you're using. I will not use any connecting devices that are not auto-locking, period. It is a small increase in cost that buys you a huge gain in safety. I prefer these (http://www.midwestunlimited.com/detail.lasso?cat_master=1003&cat_level=1019&product_id=10847).

Overall, nice setup. I'm used to a fisk descender so I use one even though it is a good bit bulkier than most descenders on the market these days...

[canid]

just be aware that some auto locking biners have edges on the collars which may damage the sheath of your line in a fall.

[crashdive123]

I don't climb! If there's no trees that means there's no Oxygen & no way to build a fire 'cuz there's no wood or O2. However, my kid brother has summited both Mr. Fuji in Japan & Mt. Kilimanjaro in S. Africa. He's been wanting to climb this one but the wife refuses to give permission: http://alpineascents.com/aconcagua.asp?google&gclid=CJeB0pfh3aMCFZBd2god0mD0Qg :cool2:

Be sure & take plenty of booze! :innocent:

I'll bet Mrs. Fuji was upset about that one.:innocent: For me - summiting Mr. Coffee is more up my alley.:innocent::blushing::innocent:

[Sarge47]

I'll bet Mrs. Fuji was upset about that one.:innocent: For me - summiting Mr. Coffee is more up my alley.:innocent::blushing::innocent:
Ok, it was late at night, was in a hurry, the sun was in my eyes....:blushing: :innocent: :sneaky2:

[Alaskan Survivalist]

yeah, i'm not a fan of static line. they can actually make load bearing equipment that would otherwise hold fail in a fall.

http://www.spadout.com/w/climbing-ropes/

I had not considered the added stress to other components. Good point! Reading, the vast majority of my climbing falls into the catagory of static rope applications. You've seen the line I use on Deadliest Catch. It's tough and durable and I know well what to expext from it. I use it for other work related duties as well but after what you have said I think it prudent to spend the money on some good climbing rope for that specific application snd still use my ground line for most the climbing I do. It should last a long time that way. I'm a cheap guy but some of the places I have been hanging from has had me rethink the extra cost was not so much when considered from those heights. I get most my gear from REI. Would you trust them to steer me to the correct rope?

[canid]

i'm from southeast; i've seen mainline rope.

what you want for any vertical climbing is dynamic dry climb line meant for single rope climbing. dry line is absolutely necessary for cold weather climbing, as ice frozen in the rope is dangerous.

[Alaskan Survivalist]

The very first thing I would change is the type of carabiners that you're using. I will not use any connecting devices that are not auto-locking, period. It is a small increase in cost that buys you a huge gain in safety. I prefer these (http://www.midwestunlimited.com/detail.lasso?cat_master=1003&cat_level=1019&product_id=10847).

Overall, nice setup. I'm used to a fisk descender so I use one even though it is a good bit bulkier than most descenders on the market these days...

I would like to hear more of the pro's and cons of auto-locking carabineers. For that matter I am always interested in design features and the mechanics of things I use. I gain more understanding that way.

[canid]

they are a PITA to open when your hands are cold, but you can't forget to lock them and rope movement is much less likely to unlock them. aside from the risk i mentioned, that's about all i can think of.

[Alaskan Survivalist]

i'm from southeast; i've seen mainline rope.

what you want for any vertical climbing is dynamic dry climb line meant for single rope climbing. dry line is absolutely necessary for cold weather climbing, as ice frozen in the rope is dangerous.

I am off to work now but wish to continue. Seems you are the guy I wanted to draw out of the wood work, you know your stuff. I would like some others to come forward that could carry on a conversation at your level. If that does not happen I'll be back in about 16 hours to ask more from my entry level perspective. Thanks for your help. This info could easily save my life or at least a broken leg.

[klickitat]

I have climbing gear but it very seldom gets used. I better tell the story.

I was working for a friend of mine build a log cabin for his company. The cabin had a 9/12 pitch on the roof and the front of the cabin was sitting on a full day light basement. This required climbing gear to set the SIP's.

Now I am an avid hunter and one of the things I like to do is chase blackies in late summer and early fall. Here is western Washington the terrain can get quite steep and is generally quite brushy. I have seen several bears and elk for that matter dive down into the thickest and steepest holes you have ever seen after being shot.

I asked if I could buy my gear from him after the job was done and was allowed. I ended up with 4 carebiners, right and left ascenders, a figure 8, 300' of static rope, my safety harness and 50' of strap. Oh and a piece of fire hose as a edge protector.

I do not climb sheer cliffs or rock faces. What I wanted the gear for is to haul out game when the terrain was steep. Putting a pack on that is loaded down with meat and then trying to crawl out of a hole that has a 60 or 70 percent grade is tough. You are usually grabbing any piece of brush or tree that you can and working your way out. Tough job. I am hoping that the ascenders and rope will make this job a lot easier.

As you can tell I said hope, I have not had the opertunity to use this gear since I got it. That is a good thing, because if I have to use my gear it is going to be a very long day.

[jgcoastie]

I would like to hear more of the pro's and cons of auto-locking carabineers. For that matter I am always interested in design features and the mechanics of things I use. I gain more understanding that way.

Basically, the auto-locking type of carabiners (some refer to it as double-action) require two seperate actions to open the gate. 1: Twist the sleeve that encompasses the gate approx 90 degrees. 2: Open the gate.

I have never seen or heard of the sleeve damaging the sheath of a line, but I guess pretty much anything is possible in a fall...

Yes, auto-locking connecting devices are a bit of a pain in the rear in cold weather, but as long as you're working/moving/etc, you should be able to feel your hands anyway. It is an added PITA that I am willing to accept.

Maybe I've been climbing too long for the CG, but I only use auto-locking/double-action connectors. I would bet my next paycheck that you could not find a standard carabiner (non-auto-locking) anywhere near my home or workplace.

[canid]

here is about the worst example of an auto-locking biner collar:
http://www.bairstow.com/media/images/21001AS_M.jpg

note the square, non-radiused edges.

it doesn't seem to be a common problem, but one i was cautioned about when i started using them. since i've seen plenty of biners perfectly capable of inflicting such damage, i always keep it in mind.

AS: i'm not the most experienced climber out there, but i like to help when i can.

jq: does it count as a foul if i plant one?:innocent:

[Alaskan Survivalist]

What are your thoughts on wire gate carabineers and practical uses for them? One problem I have is fumbling around with gear and that there does not seem to be enough room in the carabineers to open the gate as easy as I would like when they twisted. Are the triangular shaped ones any better in that reguard?

[mountain mama]

call me old-school, but i prefer an ATC for multi-function in ascending and rappelling

as for auto-locking beeners, i always use fingernail polish to paint so i know when it's closed and when it's not. i prefer to lock it myself and would never rely on a wire beener.

[Alaskan Survivalist]

call me old-school, but i prefer an ATC for multi-function in ascending and rappelling

as for auto-locking beeners, i always use fingernail polish to paint so i know when it's closed and when it's not. i prefer to lock it myself and would never rely on a wire beener.

I have been convinced by others on this thread to get actual climbing rope and will be trying out ATC then. I was told rope size matters with them which was my reasoning behind using figure 8.

[Alaskan Survivalist]

The days are getting shorter so I’ve been putting together gear for the winter season. In the past I have just been strapping gear to the out side of pack or using pack board but this year I have a dedicated pack for the job. I have not thrown in rope or food yet but there is plenty of room left.

http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg346/akmofo/IMG_1317.jpg

Contained in pack starting from the top is a Snow Claw used as shovel, snow anchor and flexible enough to be used as splint, the kit previously shown, I use both ice ax and ice tool together since it gives me more reach, Crampons and case needed to keep them from ripping pack, Avalanche probe used mostly checking snow bridges and depth of snow for digging snow cave, 2 reusable hand warmers and 4 Survival candles to heat and light snow cave.

http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg346/akmofo/IMG_1318.jpg

Weight of kit not including rope is 13 pounds.

[Rick]

What kind of snowshoes do you use? A while back we talked about those military titanium ones that some of the sportsman sites have.

[Alaskan Survivalist]

These are mine

http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg346/akmofo/IMG_0826.jpg

These are the ones I want

http://cascadedesigns.com/msr/snowshoes/ascent/lightning-ascent/product