Fire Starters And Tinders

[crashdive123]

Nell's comments on the video that I put together for B prompted me to do a video on a few different fire starters. I'll add a couple more videos in the future on various tinders and techniques. Once I get better at friction fires, I'll add those as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCnaCTU8xHE

As I add videos to the thread, I'll post them here as well so that they are all easy to access.

Various tinders - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jtYR3hlRIg

Natural flint and steel - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__zZjMihD5U

Fire from steel wool - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Yx437EnxKw

[Pal334]

You are going to be a You Tube star :) Nice, like all your videos, I find good "how dos"

[Winter]

Great video for newbs.

I had a strike force, too heavy and leaked. Since then, I pair up my ferro rods with a piece of fine hacksaw blade. The saw blade chews up the ferro rod, but, almost effortless shower of sparks.

[Rick]

Great video and some great tips that newer folks might not think of when using a ferro rod. Just a note on the magnesium. You can use it rain or shine. It will light when wet.

[crashdive123]

Good point Rick. I'll do some vids that focus more on one type, and show several ways they can be used.

[Rick]

I figured you'd cover that when you do the tinder video. I know you have one or two that will work when wet as well. Really a nice job. Well done and informative!!

[nell67]

Very nice Crash! Thanks for running with my suggestion,now,if you can make this a sticky,and keep adding links to whatever new videos you make!

Awesome!

[crashdive123]

Your wish is my command.

[Justin Case]

another good Video, thanks ! :)

[nell67]

Your wish is my command.

Thank you!!!!!!!!

[your_comforting_company]

Great work crash! Keep 'em coming!

[Batch]

Good job Crash!

[crashdive123]

Just as with the various fire starters we use, we often take for granted the tinders that we carry. Hopefully this video will demonstrate how to use some tinders that are carried in kits and packs. These are all man made tinders. Hope it takes some of the mystique out of starting fires. As with anything, it just takes a little trial and error, practice, and figuring out what works best for you. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jtYR3hlRIg

[nell67]

Very nice video crash,great explanation of each tinder you used,I have not used several of these,and was impressed on how well they lit!

+1

[crashdive123]

Poco brought it up in another thread, so I did a quick vid on fire from natural flint and steel. As you can see, you don't get the big shower of sparks like you do from a fire steel, but with the right tinder fire is just a few breaths away.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__zZjMihD5U

[welderguy]

Great Videos , Thank you for taking the time to do this.

[crashdive123]

Thanks. I'll edit the first post as I add videos to the thread so that they are a bit easier to access.

[Sourdough]

Well Done, Crash very well done, thank you.

[Rick]

I don't know if there is an Academy Award for Wilderness Videos but if there is I nominate you. Very nice job!!

[Stargazer]

You have put together a fantastic set of how to videos.

Before we know it Crash will be charging for his autograph.

[crashdive123]

You should see the one I shot today.......only to find out I had not really depressed the record button on the camera.:blush:

[Rick]

One of your better ones, no doubt.

[crashdive123]

Oh, it was the berries. Big production. It involved dancing girls and bacon.

[nell67]

Oh, it was the berries. Big production. It involved dancing girls and bacon.

The WSF dancing girls????? BEE,Winnie,Mountain momma..

[crashdive123]

The WSF dancing girls????? BEE,Winnie,Mountain momma..

That would be better than the WSF dancing boys. Remember the jib jab dance around Christmas with Poco, Rick and yours truly?

[nell67]

That would be better than the WSF dancing boys. Remember the jib jab dance around Christmas with Poco, Rick and yours truly?

Oh yea,I remember:santa::eek::santasmile:

[crashdive123]

As I recall, there was only one dancer in the group that had any redeeming qualities at all......but we won't talk about her.:innocent:

[Stargazer]

Nell you forgot to add Ken to the list of WSF Dancing Girls:innocent:

[Rick]

The dancing thong was not in this production number. I'm .... He's holding out for more money.

[your_comforting_company]

Dancing WSF ladies and Bacon??
Where do we purchase tickets??!!
I want an annual pass!

[Sourdough]

Question: Those FireSteel rods.......are the sparky all the way to the center of the rod, or is that a coating......? How do they make the rods.......?

[Rick]

It's firesteel through and through.

Everything you ever wanted to know about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrocerium

[crashdive123]

Yep - good till the last drop. Some of the formulations are slightly different, with each claiming to cast a bigger shower of sparks.

[Sourdough]

Thanks Rick, very informative.

[crashdive123]

With the talk of steel wool lately, I threw this together this afternoon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Yx437EnxKw

[Rick]

Another good one. I would think about the only thing you'd accomplish with the heavier steel wool is just discharging the battery.

[Merlin34]

I like to pop the blisters on balsam fir bark and smear the resin inside all over the end of a stick or a Q-tip. Even the faintest flame will light that up like the 4th of July. Very good for kindling when other options are being uncooperative.

[Gilmore]

I like the videos Crash, i am trying to get my hands on a swedish firesteel for christmas. About the steel wool one though i have never seen it done or tried it with a small battery i always use car batteries or the battery off of my four wheeler

[charibelle18]

I got to view the videos yesterday, & they were very informative, & awesome. :clap:

[JPGreco]

Excellent videos. I got one of the ferro rods way back when I was in scouts, but nobody really explained it to me so I never got a fire going with it (now I know my tinder wasn't fine enough to catch the sparks). Wish I knew where it was now. Next time I go camping with my friends I'm gonna have to challenge them to fire starting.

[Wolf2012]

As everyone else said, excellent vids Crash! You're a natural on camera, efficient info, easy to listen to, organized, you got it all brotha!

I have known about the 9v and the steel wool for a long time and have told many about it, and this last week I was trying out different tinder's to use with a magnifying glass. And when I came to the 00 steel wool, it worked great! Started easier than anything else I was trying at the time and provides (as we all have seen) a very hot ember. Again great job.

[wholsomback]

Did someone say"BACON" I'm in.Great information by the way.

[Old Professor]

If you are looking to make char cloth, the best solution I have found is to purchase a large bag of 12 ga cleaning patches. They can be bought very cheaply at gun shows and most gun shope. They are pure cotton and already in an ideal size. I have used both the round and square shape to make char cloth.

[crashdive123]

Here's one you may want to try.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAz8vnRyYPo

[Darkevs]

:)

This thread reminds me of a movie....... Quest for Fire!!!

[intothewild]

Crash, excellent vids. About how long do you leave the can in the fire to make the charcloth? How do you know when it is done?

[crashdive123]

The length of time is going to be dependent on the amount of material and the heat of your fire (or stove). I wait just a little after there is no more smoke (or lit gasses) coming out of the vent hole. This probably took about 5 - 7 minutes.

[intothewild]

I am going to try to make some charcloth this weekend. Does anyone have an explanation why one would use petro jelly on cotton balls? is this the best gel? I am thinking of applying some fire paste to some cotton pads or balls and use that as emergency tinder. anyone see a problem with that? like most of us, if i go into the wild i always carry several fire starting instruments. i like at least a triple back up! say, a bic lighter, mag bar, and nato waterproof matches. now i will also carry some charcloth.

[hunter63]

PJ on the cotton balls burns better and longer, and is cheap......Doesn't have to be the best, just has to work.....
Not saying not to use what ever you want....just passing along "a way"to help the cotton.

[crashdive123]

Nothing wrong with a tube of fire paste, but I would not carry cotton balls pre-soaked in it. Not sure if it would dry out, or what the "shelf life" would be after you soaked them, but there are some pretty toxic chemicals in the paste. Also, the pj cotton can be used for more than just a fire starter - chapped lips, keep a knife from rusting, lubricant, etc.

[your_comforting_company]

I keep pjcotton in my gun case for when I'm hunting in the rain. Along with a spark shooter, in a pine forest, you can get a fire going fast, AND keep your gun from rusting!

[intothewild]

has anyone seen this vid? i am going to buy these and do a test, if nobody has already.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bi5Unv2l65k

[Rick]

Yes. There have been a number of discussions on it. Good stuff. Cheaper Than Dirt's price is a little steep however. Look around, you can find it cheaper than Cheaper. (chuckle)

[intothewild]

ok, yes, i am very into fire! hey, as we all know, it can save your life! ok, another thought. Wondering about getting some Kingsford charcoal (impregnated with lighter fluid). I don't think it would be good on it's own, but perhaps scraped onto a cotton ball may be a good idea? any thoughts?

[crashdive123]

Try it and let us know how you like. Probably not something I would want to try, but looking forward to your review.

[dutch hermit]

Great videos. Never thought about using sisal twine but I have used yute as a tinder.. worked great!

[LarryB]

Thanks for the nice work! You've taken all of the mystery out of it. :) lb

[akkayla]

thanks for sharing ur videos this will help me alot :) im a newbie

[tonirush]

Very well made and informative! Thank you!

[scumbucket]

I enjoy videos of different methods of starting a fire. Thanks. Personally where I live in the White Mountains of AZ the forests are full of old stumps from 30 years ago left by loggers. These things are full of pitch, I can hold a match to a piece for a couple of seconds and have a fire going. I use my ax to greak off pieces and keep these in camp. Even in a downpour I can light a fire. This is my tender. I keep some in plastic jars ready to use. Keeps it dry, and the pitch off my camping gear.

[scumbucket]

This is a real nice site, I've learned lots on starting fires using different methods of tinder. Since watching the video's I'm about convinced matches aren't needed so much as I thought. I appreciate all of you sharing your experiences using these methods. I've played and hunted the woods all my life, and never knew a lot of this stuff. Thanks all for sharing.

[ifyoudare]

Have you thought of including the Aussie Survival Tool in your comparison videos. It actually has tinder as part of the tool as well as the flint and magnesium which makes it different from the other fire starters I have used. Not just a compartment for cotton wool or something. I love video of sparks!!!!!! Great work on your movies.

[crashdive123]

Thanks, and no I haven't thought of using the Aussie Survival Tool. You have now mentioned it in three of your four posts which sure does make it appear to be spam (the annoying promotion of something, not the canned meat).

[garden-ed]

Dryer lint works real well

[crashdive123]

Dryer lint works real well

48 seconds of the second video listed in the OP.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jtYR3hlRIg

[hunter63]

Dryer lint works real well

I know a lot of people swear by dryer lint......I have tried it, know it works...BUT

At my house dryer lint has all sorts of stuff the smells funny when burned.....including black lab hair.....

I don't use it, as I can get a big bag of cotton balls at the dollar store for a buck.....or search out natural tinder.
Y'all do what you want....not for me.

[crashdive123]

H......stop putting the dog in the dryer!

[Batch]

I know a lot of people swear by dryer lint......I have tried it, know it works...BUT

At my house dryer lint has all sorts of stuff the smells funny when burned.....including black lab hair.....

I don't use it, as I can get a big bag of cotton balls at the dollar store for a buck.....or search out natural tinder.
Y'all do what you want....not for me.

That is correct! LOL

[dave fuches]

i agree that this is a great way to present material...videos were very nicely done.

[Rick]

The man is a natural born star. He's available for cameo spots in your next Youtube video about food or guest appearances at your family picnic (Nothing says outdoors like a blazing fire!!). Have your people contact my people and we'll make all the necessary arrangements to have him appear in person.

[Nighthawk01]

Just watched the first vid , very impressed. Good for a novice like me.

[crashdive123]

Glad it was helpful.

[Skittish Prepper]

hi everyone this is my first post. my name's cheryl and i've been prepping for about two years now. i have a couple of ultimate survival technologies flint and steel strikers and i love them. they were expensive and i'm wondering if anyone uses anything else made by ultimate survival technologies?

[crashdive123]

hi everyone this is my first post. my name's cheryl and i've been prepping for about two years now. i have a couple of ultimate survival technologies flint and steel strikers and i love them. they were expensive and i'm wondering if anyone uses anything else made by ultimate survival technologies?

You'll see at least two UST fire starters in the video posted in the OP.

[Nighthawk01]

Fantastic job , learned a lot from your vids. :smartass:

[Phaedrus]

hi everyone this is my first post. my name's cheryl and i've been prepping for about two years now. i have a couple of ultimate survival technologies flint and steel strikers and i love them. they were expensive and i'm wondering if anyone uses anything else made by ultimate survival technologies?

I do have a few. I have a BlastMatch or two and at least one Sparkie. I have some WetFire but mostly just to play with; I haven't found it to be reliable enough to both with for the most part. Of those products my favorite is the Blastmatch; it's easy to use and has held up fine in the limited amount of use I'd subjected it to. There is some talk that they're not all that durable, but mine has been okay. The Sparkie seems a little underpowered to me. The device is compact but the ferro rod is rather small. I prefer a regular firesteel myself. If I want something that works one handed I prefer the military style Spark-Lite.

I do have a commercial chamber vacuum sealer, and I've successfully sealed WetFire in mylar bags. They then work reliably for at least a year (the longest I've tested them). It appears that the factory baggies develop pinholes, quickly rendering the tinder inert. Several people I know have reported this, too. The mylar bags are much, much more durable. However, if I'm going to seal my own anyway the Weber cubes are larger and vastly cheaper for a virtually identical product.

[scumbucket]

I went to a preparedness fair Sunday in Mesa, AZ at Falcon Field. It was really interesting as almost everything was so overpriced I left. One cat had flint and steel fire starters for $20.00 each. Coleman makes one for $6.75, and Harbor has the same thing on sale now and then for $2.00 it's unreal. Knives were the worst, lots of useless stuff, and priced at $495 and up. Backpacks rated as Army surplus for $295.00 or more. Army surpluss? Like hell. It was really sad. Almost 90%of people there were WW11 vets, age wise, and few younger folks or families. What does that tell you about who is getting prepped? The firestarters were what bothered me, and that booth was a busy one.

[crashdive123]

I went to a preparedness fair Sunday in Mesa, AZ at Falcon Field. It was really interesting as almost everything was so overpriced I left. One cat had flint and steel fire starters for $20.00 each. Coleman makes one for $6.75, and Harbor has the same thing on sale now and then for $2.00 it's unreal. Knives were the worst, lots of useless stuff, and priced at $495 and up. Backpacks rated as Army surplus for $295.00 or more. Army surpluss? Like hell. It was really sad. Almost 90%of people there were WW11 vets, age wise, and few younger folks or families. What does that tell you about who is getting prepped? The firestarters were what bothered me, and that booth was a busy one.

It seems that you may be confusing or mixing up several different items. Here's what I mean.....
One cat had flint and steel fire starters for $20.00 each This is not an unreasonable price for a blacksmith to make and harden a striker then package it with some flint.


Coleman makes one for $6.75, and Harbor has the same thing on sale now and then for $2.00 it's unreal. Here I believe (but am not positive) you are referring to magnesium blocks with a ferrocerium rod attached to it. The Coleman is decent, but the Harbor Freight version is less than ideal in my experience.

[Rick]

Actually, it doesn't tell me anything about who's getting prepped. Older folks generally led more of an outdoor life than today's younger folks so a fair like that probably holds more interest for them. It also depends on location. Around here you'll find all age groups at that type of event and at gun shows. You also have the State Fair currently running so I would imagine a lot of families were there.

[M.Demetrius]

Hey, thanks for the videos. If you can find jute at the craft store, it ignites much easier than sisal (ref your Natural flint and steel video). Get the larger size, or ply smaller ones together until you get around 1/4" or better sized cord. And, BTW, I use an Altoids can the very same way with my flint and striker.

Good job!

[backup1911]

Great videos! Thanks for sharing them.

Most of the reputable commercial tinders I've had good luck with. I carry a small supply in my survival kit but try not to use them except in the worse wet/rainy/windy/snowy conditions. Outside of those times I try to use natural tinders that I find around me in the woods.

I live in high desert country and I find that bark from an older juniper tree on the main trunk is almost always dry, and it makes pretty good field expedient tinder. I take long strands of the bark twist them, and roll them in my hands in a motion similar to that you would use to spin a fire drill. As I spin and crush the bark it breaks down into small, hairlike fibers. I can use these to make a nest and generally I can get it to ignite with a few showers of sparks from my fire steel.

In areas where there is no juniper trees, I have used sagebrush bark as well in the same way.

I use the swedish army style fire steel. It's large diameter, easy for me to hold, and durable. Leave the striker attached to it but I typically use the back of my folding knife blade to strike it. I feel like I get much better leverage and control with my knives than with the small strikers that typically come with the fire steels.

I used a blast match for a while but I broke my first one. I thought it was a fluke and I really liked how they work so I got another one. It failed on me in the field after a short period of time to though so I stopped using them after that.

[Remianen]

So I've just finished watching the first video and I must say, extremely well made. I'm a bit fanatical when it comes to fire. I keep a ferro rod in my wallet, a magnesium bar is usually in the coin pocket of my jeans, and my survival pack has multiples of both of those plus steel wool and a 9-volt battery, a small round tin of pj with cotton balls and cotton rounds, and a cheap "windproof" butane lighter. My first WS excursion early this year was a lesson in tough love as our instructor made us suffer for several hours because the person assigned to handle fire, fumbled and none of the rest of us came prepared. Hard lesson but a lesson nonetheless. I've taken to carrying a garbage bag in my wallet (ferro rod is partially wrapped in it) as well.

I've never considered using any of the commercial tinders since cotton is dirt cheap (a penny each at the dollar store) as is pj. I'll check out the videos to see if I'm missing anything.

Thanks for making them!

[roamin tony]

Maybe this has been mentioned.....but has anyone tried the "Gobspark" products? I have one with the magnesium rod and it works great. Was fairly cheap too. Would recommend this product. In fact it rides 24/7 right on the side of my pack.

[DomC]

Crashdive those are "top o da line" videos. I use sisal as TINDER bundle material also, but I find it somewhat difficult to reach ignition at times. Jute is easier imo and a mixture of the two is even better. I like to prep sisal and jute twine beforehand and store it in 4"X4" ZIPLOC baggies. Cotton balls combined with Vaseline is my go to man-made TINDER. I also like using flint & steel w/char cloth. I like to use old denim jeans material for making char cloth. Oil lamp wicks are good to use for making char material. For natural TINDER I like monkey fur (saw palmetto/sabal palm fiber), dry grass, old man's beard & shredded pine needles. I also use the Coughlans and LMF Ferro rods. But nothing beats a good ole BIC lighter imo...
All these items are part of my fire kits.

DomC

[ninjasurvivor]

I have a tin of Murray's pomade that is half empty. I pack the empty space with cotton balls. The pomade burns about twice as long as PJ. Also, the tin is a good container and could be used to make char cloth once empty. I seal it closed with a ranger band, which itself can be used as tinder and burns hot even when wet.

Hand sanitizer is flammable and can be ignited with a fero rod. But I've experimented with it and come to find out it doesn't stay lit very long. Don't squeeze it onto wood that you intend to burn, as it will not act like a normal liquid accelerant. It should only be used to produce a small flame at the base of your fire lay in order to light the kindling. Once the alcohol burns out there is a non-flammable gel that remains which will prevent whatever it is on from burning. So you have to be aware of that drawback.

[longear]

Has anyone tried piston fires? it may be posted else where.

[Rick]

Yes. There are actually a number of threads on them. Just do a search on "piston" and scroll through the results. You'll see a number of them.

[wilderness medic]

Ok what's the deal with char cloth? I used it a lot for natural birds nest tinder with good success. But when using them they work as supposed to, and just heat up and smolder. Is there any plus to this over PJ cotton balls? They seem to burn a lot hotter, bigger, and long, plus you don't need to transfer and blow on it to get it to ignite like char. Is there a reason to use char besides simulating a bow drill coal and practicing that i'm missing?

[crashdive123]

Using (and making) char cloth (and material) can be an important skill IMO. Are there better, more efficient methods? Absolutely, but understanding how it works and being able to make it - even in the field from natural sources can be a very valuable and possible life saving thing. Additionally, using char as a coal extender (charred rope, fungus, etc) can be very helpful when ignition sources are scarce.

I do believe for most of us it is normally just use it as a fun thing to do, but that fun may lead to a life saver some day. Of course there are some that enjoy period type outings where its use may be more "correct" than modern methods and that is great too.

[hunter63]

Ok what's the deal with char cloth? I used it a lot for natural birds nest tinder with good success. But when using them they work as supposed to, and just heat up and smolder. Is there any plus to this over PJ cotton balls? They seem to burn a lot hotter, bigger, and long, plus you don't need to transfer and blow on it to get it to ignite like char. Is there a reason to use char besides simulating a bow drill coal and practicing that i'm missing?

There is no deal....just another method and useful skill.

Flint and steel with char cloth when used in a primitive re-enacting setting (many time periods) is the preferred method follow by the burning glass....the bow/hand drill.
Making and using char cloth is part of it.

Char cloth allows even the smallest spark to catch, glow smolder and be blown into flame with additional tender.

No one has to use it.....just another skill and tool in the box.

[wilderness medic]

Got it. I used it a lot to recreate a bow drill coal, or catch one to practice fire making. But that was all I carried. For some reason I was under the impression you still needed it to catch a spark and ignite PJ cotton up until a while ago.

PJ seems superior, so for emergency non bushcraft use, that's what i'll use.

[TXyakr]

Very well done videos Crash. For me all these different techniques are like tools in a box in my shop, if one fails or is lost I will be glad I have learned to use an alternative. I have found that "natural" tinders and starters found in the wilderness can be very inconsistent and definitely not as reliable as those you demonstrated. Some of those "Survival Shows" are very miss leading, however it is worth trying them out mostly for fun but also just incase you ever need them or just want to save your emergency PJ+cotton balls etc for a real emergency. Personally I need practice making char cloth, not my first choice to use but there are highly available materials to make it from in primitive conditions.

Once I was car camping and an older friend who had been camping for many decades asked if anyone had lighter fluid to light the group campfire. I was busy cooking food for the pot-luck supper but told him I had an emergency pint of fluid in an aluminum fuel bottle in my truck. He got it and poured the entire bottle on the wood and lit it. I was like WTF. No rain, the wood was dry he only needed an ounce or two to get some kindling started with a spark. I don't even lend out a plastic lighter anymore, people used mine set it down on the ground step on it, destroyed; same thing with fire steel, which are easily broken. OMG, City Folk Camping, it just kills me, with laughter. Inexperienced people who stop learning can be highly entertaining. I learn something new every time I go camping and on forums like this, and from others in group campouts. They also laugh at my mistakes, or just the strange ways I do things, like how I obsess about backups.

[Kestrel]

I am going to try to make some charcloth this weekend. Does anyone have an explanation why one would use petro jelly on cotton balls? is this the best gel? I am thinking of applying some fire paste to some cotton pads or balls and use that as emergency tinder. anyone see a problem with that? like most of us, if i go into the wild i always carry several fire starting instruments. i like at least a triple back up! say, a bic lighter, mag bar, and nato waterproof matches. now i will also carry some charcloth.

I use the YELLOW PJ worked into 100% cotton balls, it has healing properties. I have 1 or 2 plastic match holders full of them, for making fire, and for first aid. It's good for cuts, scratches, chapped skin... and lights my fire. ; )

[Western Mountain Man]

I used flint and steel for the most part. For tinder I've used cattail fluff, dry pine needles and shaved birch bark. Dryer lint works well but burns quickly.

[WalkingTree]

I tried something once just for fun - don't see it as being necessary, and most times might be more work than is needed (building it first). Except...I can see it being a solution when conditions are a bit more challenging (lower oxygen at high altitudes or high humidity, damp material) and you are alone - no help:

Borrowed something from the crooked-stick method. The crooked-stick is basically using a curved drill, holding it in the middle at the peak of the curve and cranking it round and round with your hand. This curved drill is much heavier and longer. Whereas other methods are using speed to create the threshold friction, the hand-cranking action is slow yet creates more pressure...reaching your friction threshold with more pressure instead of speed. You put together a big branch with a Y, so that the Y is on the ground (stabilizing itself without you holding onto it much) and the single member rests upon your drill...with a really big stone or even small boulder on top of the Y, pushing down on the crank-drill/crooked-stick.

Well, the part that I "borrowed" is using the Y. Really I made two Y's, each with some good weight on them, their relative positions holding the drill in place without me touching it. The drill was straight, and I put a bow on it. I made the bow kinda long. I could hold the bow with both hands, and saw with a good long stroke...and didn't get close to wore out at all. So now I have lots of downward pressure, AND lots of speed with the bow, AND can use both hands on a long bow...being comfortable, stable, and not getting worn out.

Obviously, you have to make the drill and board accordingly to handle the weight and sideways forces. And carving the right tip at bottom of drill. And make sure the board even stays in place. But the way I did it, it wasn't a problem at all. And I even lubricated (with something so commonplace as just wetting them with water, or maybe something else, can't remember) the top of the drill where the Y rested upon it, having also made those two surfaces really smooth where they were against each other. And really, it didn't take that long to build in the first place.

That sucker almost brought flame to the board instead of just tinder smoke, and in VERY few saws. Fast. I didn't do all conceivable experiments, but I tried a couple of things which wouldn't work otherwise, like something not being as dry as you'd like or a board that was hard instead of soft. And there was fire in virtual seconds. Some attempts brought smoke/flame in four bow strokes. Pow, done.

By the way, question: Anybody ever tried MAKING a fire-piston out of non-modern materials (found in the woods) and without modern shop tools, and have it also work?

[crashdive123]

By the way, question: Anybody ever tried MAKING a fire-piston out of non-modern materials (found in the woods) and without modern shop tools, and have it also work?I have not.

[Eastree]

By the way, question: Anybody ever tried MAKING a fire-piston out of non-modern materials (found in the woods) and without modern shop tools, and have it also work?

I did watch this a while back. The video description has some history.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NKq4ChNOew

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yK2yqcKdUZc

[hunter63]

I did watch this a while back. The video description has some history.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NKq4ChNOew

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yK2yqcKdUZc

WT, as you can see by these video's even with natural materials, need to locate and process parts,...and several specialized tools, looks like maybe hack saw blades modified, other several knives....and plant fiber.....Still quite a process.

I can picture the maker in the vid's cussing himself for losing his Bic as he's working

When completed you now have a fairly large tool, that needs char cloth to work well......all for a glowing ember.

I do not consider this practical, as an emergency tool for fire starting, but has a cool factor.

[WalkingTree]

Yes, like my contraption, for normal occasional instances, this is something which calls for more time and work than just spinning a stick in your hand for a few minutes for fire. However, once made, for someone who'd frequently need to start a fire from scratch, I can see this as being more convenient, assuming the skill is there. I figure that's why it's use was commonplace for some indigenous peoples. It seems like their equivalent of our modern magnesium/firesteel. Just a quick pop of the piston and you're done. 'Bout as fast as our firesteel. Excepting whether or not you use charcloth with firesteel (have to make it).

And I never considered charcloth to be that hard to make. Is basically the same goal/method as making the kind of charcoal for treating drinking water (Not the kind you find in a campfire). For charcoal, you're basically just raising some wood to ignition temperature, but you don't let it actually ignite...burn...because you don't let it get any air (oxygen). My first time doing this was with a small metal trashcan (I figure you can do it without even the trashcan...in the primitive wild just dirt and maybe stones will do) - Fill the can with some wood. More wood fitted in just right for less air. Hardwood, oak, is best but just because the resultant coal falls apart less and lasts longer. Dig into the ground a few inches, plop the can upside down onto that spot. Build up dirt around the base to choke the air. Start a fire around it and let it burn...

...How big a fire and how long it burns is key. You want to completely transform the wood, yet not take it so far that it turns into powder. For about a 3-cubic-feet worth of wood, my half-arsed recipe is a "medium fire for a medium period of time". Medium "campfire", and not just starting the initial fire then letting it burn out yet not kept burning all night either. After maybe a couple or few hours of marshmallow roasting ritual, leave it. Let it cool overnight, and done...

...so well, keeping that concept in mind, just put some cloth in a can, kept from getting ventilation. Put it over a candle or close to a fire, whatever. When smoke tries to force itself out of the can, cloth is done - You're just trying to heat that cloth to burning temperature, yet not letting it actually burn. So it remains intact, but what you have now is some material which catches fire (ember) easier...at a lowered ignition temperature.

I seen/heard about people putting together complicated contraptions for making water-treating charcoal...but this, and I believe charcloth as well, is more forgiving than I think some feel that it is - several ways to do it with some flexibility but not complexity. Don't even need only one kind of material for charcloth.

The trick of course, as many of you know I'm sure, is "holding your tongue just right"...the practice and skill in using these things. Making and using the fire piston. Drills. Charcoal and charcloth. Starting a fire with different kinds of charcloth and tinder.

[hunter63]

Cotton works the best for char cloth........
Just saying.

[Rick]

Making activated charcoal is not like you described. It's a lot more than just removing air from the equation. All you are making with your method is charcoal. That is not the same as activated charcoal, which is what is used for water treatment. Activated charcoal is usually heated in a chamber of inert gas then acid washed to remove the fly ash. In fact one method, oxidation, introduces oxygen into the chamber to create it. Activated charcoal and char cloth are steeds of different hues.

[Batch]

...so well, keeping that concept in mind, just put some cloth in a can, kept from getting ventilation. Put it over a candle or close to a fire, whatever. When smoke tries to force itself out of the can, cloth is done - You're just trying to heat that cloth to burning temperature, yet not letting it actually burn. So it remains intact, but what you have now is some material which catches fire (ember) easier...at a lowered ignition temperature.


When smoke stops coming out of the can the char cloth is done. When you heat wood for a fire it out gases volatile gases first. These are typical hydrogen, carbon and oxygen in the form of 10CH20. This happens at about 300 degrees and once you have raised the temperature to about 500 degrees these gases undergo a chemical reaction and burn. That process accounts for your smoke.

Once these volatile gases have been removed from the wood or plant fiber you are left with char. The main benefits of which are that char burns cleaner and hotter. Another advantage is that the cellulose material that was eliminated as those volatile gases were released were moist and having eliminated that moisture, you have something that will smolder when it takes a spark. If the gas was still present the charcloth would burn with a visible flame as those gases went through a chemical reaction caused by the heat.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/earth/geophysics/fire1.htm

[WalkingTree]

- Oops, I meant when the smoke stops, not when it starts (charcloth)

- I always wondered about the "activated" part for charcoal. Maybe that's what more complicated contraptions that people attempt or make is for? I know a feller who always makes charcoal the way I described, and uses it for water from his roof to run into and through before going into an underground cistern. I asked him about this...isn't there more to it? Doesn't it need to be "activated" or have something else done to it? Is his kind of coal still good for drinking water in some ways? He swore to me that what he does is all there is to it. He's been living in the sticks off the grid for several decades, so I respected his word/experience and never looked into it much since.

Of course, that guy was a little 'off' too, in certain ways. But I learned a good few things from him, and just stuck this one in my hat.

...but, does this kind of coal do anything at all for water, in primitive situations? (I do know that activated isn't meant to be antibacterial to a great extent, but for taste and some minor practical effects.)

[Eastree]

WalkingTree, you have to be a bit careful with hear-say. I've read some posts from people who believe simply placing a stick of charcoal (bamboo charcoal from Japan, if I remember right) into your cup will filter the water. Yup, without the water even having to pass through it. Complete hogwash.

[Rick]

Activated charcoal will adsorb (with a d) organic contaminates as well as help with taste. Depending on the size of his roof a simple 1 inch rain could result in hundreds of gallons of water. I'm not sure how he's flowing that much water through a charcoal filter of any kind. While that roof water sounds clean you have to remember that birds can easily poop on your roof as well as any critter that scampers across it.

[hunter63]

Want to hear some thing funny......
The gutters on the Taj Ma Shed water collection system....has a screen as it starts down the down spout.
As it is close to the over hanging trees....the gutter fills up with sticks, dirt, leaves and God know what else.....

Used to clean it out regular, till figured out that the accumulation was actually filtering a lot of dirty stuff out, as the water collected was much cleaner (to look at) than after the screen was had a good cleaning.

So, If anyone asks .......I just say, "Yeah well I'm using a debris filter....Yeah, That's the ticket!"

Kinda like ...the ground?

I still boil it to drink....or used to...have a well now, but still use the collection system to wash up....as its down next to the shed, and I get dirty.
Shower would have to be filled.... to use...but is still ready as well.

[WalkingTree]

Activated charcoal will adsorb (with a d) organic contaminates as well as help with taste. Depending on the size of his roof a simple 1 inch rain could result in hundreds of gallons of water. I'm not sure how he's flowing that much water through a charcoal filter of any kind. While that roof water sounds clean you have to remember that birds can easily poop on your roof as well as any critter that scampers across it.
Heh...yea!

The regular practice was to have the water diverted to not be collected, and when it rained we'd wait a while till the rain washed the roof and gutters a bit, then it'd all be directed to go into the system. For each roof (a house and another building) there were two brick and mortar boxes about 2 feet by 2 feet each which were kept full of this (apparently non-activated and worthless?) homemade-in-an-upside-down-metal-trashcan charcoal, about 6 to 12 inches deep. Above and below were screens. And the roof was casually inspected and swept now and then.

I never suffered any ill effects of any kind, for months of being there, and it's been 6 years since...but then also I believe that most water consumption (excluding laundry and showers etc) involved the water going through a coffee maker, or being boiled in a saucepan because of cooking that food, etc, so maybe that saved me from any funkiness?

But anywho...I've "finally" did some googling on the matter, and so far it seems that activation just increases the surface area and porosity, so that it "cleans more" (and activated has certain volatile compounds removed). This suggests to me that normal charcoal does something, but activated just does it a lot better. I also see that one cannot make activated charcoal in primitive situations, unless you happen to take particular chemicals with you, which need to be handled carefully, but still need to be able to build a totally awesome oven anyway with dirt and rocks, if not using a steam method. Arg!

Also, from what I'm reading, this makes me think that it would be better to have the stuff we made be pulverized into powder, instead of intact sticks/chunks (?).

I knew that (activated) charcoal had some positive organic properties, but what I said about it not being very antibacterial is because I believe that you don't want to depend completely on that...wouldn't you still want to boil?

But now I want to ask...is this stuff we were making really very different than the coals from a campfire??



Want to hear some thing funny......
The gutters on the Taj Ma Shed water collection system....has a screen as it starts down the down spout.
As it is close to the over hanging trees....the gutter fills up with sticks, dirt, leaves and God know what else.....

Used to clean it out regular, till figured out that the accumulation was actually filtering a lot of dirty stuff out, as the water collected was much cleaner (to look at) than after the screen was had a good cleaning.

So, If anyone asks .......I just say, "Yeah well I'm using a debris filter....Yeah, That's the ticket!"

Kinda like ...the ground?

I still boil it to drink....or used to...have a well now, but still use the collection system to wash up....as its down next to the shed, and I get dirty.
Shower would have to be filled.... to use...but is still ready as well.
Hey...that's right! ('slong as the gunk is the right gunk, I guess.)


WalkingTree, you have to be a bit careful with hear-say...
Yea...I'm usually a bit more skeptical and thorough before I stick something in my knowledge-box.

But then...swishing a stick of charcoal around in a cup of water wouldn't do ANYTHING??

[Rick]

.is this stuff we were making really very different than the coals from a campfire??

Apart from possibly being charred more, there is no difference. Charcoal is charcoal. Reducing the size of the charcoal still won't approximate activated charcoal. Charcoal will absorb (with a B) off tastes and smells but that's the only thing it will do. Activated charcoal will adsorb (with a D) organic contaminates as well as absorb (with a B) off tastes and smells. While both will purify water neither will sterilize water.

[MrFixIt]

Well, I have pictures but keep getting an error message.
Anyways, I had been eyeballing the bark on some myrtles. Kinda reminds me of river birch the way it peels off, but is thicker.
I crumbled some up into a pile, then tried a ferro rod. No go.
Scraped some magnesium onto it, spark caught, then died.
I then tried the Bic. It lit briefly, smoldered, then went out.
I thought maybe this would be a good urban setting tinder, but no, it isn't!

[crashdive123]

How long did you let it dry after you peeled it?

[MrFixIt]

How long did you let it dry after you peeled it?

Sorry Crash, just saw this...
I didn't let it dry, it was already very crumbly (is that a word?) and certainly felt dry to the touch.

[Anthony Harper]

My fire starter kit is:
. Dry wooden shavings of a wardrobe
. Cotton wool mixed with lip balm
. Flint and steel

[hunter63]

My fire starter kit is:
. Dry wooden shavings of a wardrobe
. Cotton wool mixed with lip balm
. Flint and steel

Hunter63 saying Hey and Welcome
There is a intro section at:........If you would like to say hello.

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?14-Introductions

[News]

Man, that youtube video is really useful.

[-FinnSurvivor-]

The tinder i prefer is a simple cotton pad soaked in a common cooking oil (rapeseed)...tap it with a toilet paper to get it dry(ish) and its good to go...burns over 4 minutes and costs basicly nothing.

[survival-skills]

Really awsome Youtube video, tnx!

[BENESSE]

Came across this idea and was blown away by its simplicity and ingenuity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejfSv3raPDo

[WalkingTree]

That looks like a lot, compared to some other available techniques for long fires that take less wood and less setup (?)

[hunter63]

Came across this idea and was blown away by its simplicity and ingenuity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejfSv3raPDo

Actually used a one sided version of the "self feeder" a few times....but was more of a reflector and in one case, a wet wood dryer.....
Was raining for 5 days....so cut wood was kinda stacked like that, just out side a canvas tarp/fly....Fire would burn, drying the next log and the next etc.

[Ablang]

Hello, i think this is probably the mose important think you need to survive )) and ofc water! but for someone like me, the bronchodilators (https://onlinepharmacyreviews.org/forum/health-issues-and-medicines/bronchodilators) are essential as well.

[hunter63]

Hello, i think this is probably the mose important think you need to survive )) and ofc water!

Hunter63 saying Hey and Welcome
There is a intro section at:........If you would like to say hello.

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?14-Introductions

[outdoorfan]

Really helpful videos! Already loving this forum. My friends used to always snicker at me for having fire steel instead of just using a lighter... until their BICs failed on a ski camping trip and I save the day/night!

[steve-rawls]

I'm going to have to try this again. When I tried a battery with steel wool it didn't catch as much as that, probably the type of steel wool.

[crashdive123]

If you use 0000 or 000 it should work fine.

[Pinsc]

Great videos
A good reminder for me to practice different methods!

[ATS]

My preferred manmade tinder is a variant of the petroleum jelly cotton ball. First, I melt the PJ, not just rub it into the CB. Second, I add paraffin or wax to the melted PJ and melt it all. Pour the mixture into a freezer zip top bag with cotton balls in it, squeeze out the air, then allow it soak up the hot liquid and keep it moving until it has cooled enough that it does not pool. At some point in the cooling process allow air in and move it so the balls don't just clump together. You can figure out the finer points. My cost is about 4 cents per PJCB, but you can pull them apart and maybe start 5 to 10 fires with each ball, depending on your kindling.

Recipe is 13oz of PJ, 8oz of wax, 125 large cotton balls. Each ball will burn for about 10 minutes, give or take.

[ATS]

By the way, just in case it hasn't been noted, but steel wool works with a ferro rod as well.

[Mr.Brooks]

Pardon me if this has already been discussed. I use pitch wood, some call it fatwood. If a coniferous tree is injured it responds by sending sap to the site. This helps seal it off from pathogens and can envelop bugs and trap them before they cause trouble. Another genesis is a strong wind twists a tree to the point of the wood inside cracks. Over time that sap is absorbed into the wood and depending on how saturated it may be waterproof but it acts like wood that has been soaked in turpentine. Very easy to ignite with a match or lighter. Never tried the primitive methods.

When walking in the woods if you see an rotten old pine tree stump with some vertical pieces sticking up check out it out. Especially if they are in the interior of the tree. There is a reason those vertical pieces did not rot and it may be they are impregnated with pitch. Same holds for old rotten windfall Pine trees, very very rotten. If there are pieces of wood that have not rotted it may be pitch wood. BTW I use the term Pine trees pretty generically. Pine trees, Douglas-fir, spruce, true firs like White fir to a lesser extent. The western cedars not so good.

Break a piece off and if it smells like PineSol you have pitch wood. Some wood may be so impregnated that you could soak it under water and it will still catch.I've been in some pretty good rainstorms and got a fire started with this stuff. A few shavings will get dry wood to ignite but if the wood is wet you need to use chunks. And do not cook over it unless you like turpentine as a marinade.

[MAILIYATFRANCHISA]

Great video for newbs.

I had a strike force, too heavy and leaked. Since then, I pair up my ferro rods with a piece of fine hacksaw blade. The saw blade chews up the ferro rod, but, almost effortless shower of sparks.

like all your videos, I find good "how dos"

[Jamesgrant]

Thanks for the good videos, some methods I didn't know yet.

[ruby26]

I pair up my ferro rods with a piece of fine SPAM.

[pete lynch]

Oh, Ru-by, dont take your SPAM to town....(sorry Kenny)

[Wildwalder]

The first option is the best one. I have tinder which creates a lot of sparks like this in the first movie at 2:05 minutes. That's the best option. Easily you can start fire :-)

[Old GI]

My first technique is: "Honey, get the fire started". After I recover, I use whatever is available.

[WolfVanZandt]

Heh, yeah. Maybe David Allen Coe isn't the best survival reference in this instance.

:)

[samsmith]

Very nice videos Crash. You made me remember one of my vacation days in my hometown. We literally have grated the wood as you have done and spend two hours lightning a fire. but in the end, came out of that expedition with sore hands.

[didnot]

If it's raining, it's 31F or warmer. That's not that cold, IF you get out of the wind and stay dry. Fire's dont keep you from getting wet or stop the rain. So first you arrange for shelter then you worry about a fire, if you need one. Bring the right sleep'shelter gear and clothing and you wont need a fire down to at least 30F I use 1.5 lbs more clothing than cammies and cap, 1.5 lbs of daypack, 1 lb of modified buttpack, and 4.5 lbs of sleep/shelter gear, to include stakes, tape, cordage, 3 drum liners, a couple of bugnet suits, a camo net, a net hammock. If I have dry debris, I can get down to 0F without a fire. If I can have a discrete Dakota fire pit to heat up some rocks, and the UCO lantern, I can dry out enough wet debris to stuff between the bug net suits, letting me handle 20F. and sleep. I can use the hot rocks at 20F and sleep for 2-3 hours at a time, if I cant dry out any debris. It takes quite a while for 20F to freeze the ground so hard that I can't dig a Dakota pit. When you get down to 10F, it's a reasonable risk, ONE night, to emplly 2 Siberian fire lays and some rocks to dry out enough debris to stuff between the drumliners and the reflective Tyvek bivy. In the net hammock, the debris that's under you, inside of the bivy and the "envelope" made of two drum-liners, need not be dry, since it never touches you. The packs get emptied-out and used as sleeping pads, atop the hammock. If I have dry debris, I stuff the packs with same.

[VnVet]

Wow, I'm now highly edumacated...

[Old GI]

About time!

[VnVet]

About time!

It was long overdue. Luckily, didnot is here.

[Alanaana]

Thank you for sharing your videos. I've been learning and writing about different fire starting methods and have been looking for good videos to include in the blog.

[Michael aka Mac]

Here is a video of 53 types of Tinder for fire-starting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aBq1B7AQ_I

Personally I disagree with his opinion of Doritos being better than corn chips, and there are a ton of other methods, but for the sake of this thread

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aBq1B7AQ_I

[annika_wildernesswisdom]

Just watched your fire starter videos - good stuff! The flint and steel one actually reminded me of my first successful attempt, felt like magic, honestly.

You planning on diving into friction fires soon? That's a beast on its own. I've tried it a handful of times, but it's hit or miss for me. Would be cool to see your approach and any tricks you've picked up.

Keep the videos coming, man. They're solid.

[sustaindivergent]

That's awesome to hear, Nell's comments must have been quite motivating! It's always great when feedback sparks new ideas and projects. Exploring different fire starters and tinders sounds like a fantastic addition to your content. It not only broadens the scope of your videos but also provides valuable information for your audience.

Looking forward to seeing your future videos on various tinders and techniques. The evolution of your content to include friction fires shows a commitment to learning and sharing your experiences, which is both engaging and educational for your viewers.

Keep up the fantastic work, and it's clear that your passion for the subject is driving you to continually improve and expand your content. Can't wait to see what you come up with next!