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Sarge47
12-28-2007, 03:44 PM
Ever since I've joined this group I've said we could start one great Survival School. Then the thought just occurred to me that we COULD have an "On-line" Survival School if we put our minds to it. So here's the "challenge", Let's set up a criteria for our own Survival courses/classes in an organized manner. Where would we start? Chris has already expressed interest in buying Survival videos from some of us and other members are making videos of their trips. But it's all disorganized. While hunting down Threads on Knives there were a significant number I didn't get around to posting, and that's just on one item! Here's my thoughts on an outline for the "School":

1.) We should view all those who say they're here to learn from us and ask our advice as "students". The amount of previous outdoor experience will vary from one to another so I think all should be viewed as "Newby's" to start.

2.) We should have a list of "Subjects" in order of importance established by our esteemed panel of experienced outdoors men & women with the understanding that all who apply will have to comply with theforementioned list; not open to debate.

3.) We start out with the "72 hour" view; in other words Rescue is most often accomplished in 72 hours so that's where we'll start. Longer term Survival, Solo Survival, Group Survival may be added as seperate topics or included somewhere within the cirriculum as ordained by the group.

4.) The group will be appointed by members with no member appointing themselves for obvious reasons.

5.) A Mission Statement should be adopted.

6.) A list of approved and unapproved resources should be established.

Any thoughts, opinions, ideas, etc.?:cool:

Rick
12-28-2007, 04:03 PM
1. We've seen some folks join with a lot of info to bring to the table. I would hate to label someone a newby only to find out they had lived a primitive life for the last fifteen years or had taught survival at Ranger School. It's really a matter of semantics but even someone at 14 could have a lot of experience under their belt. I sure did at 14. I put a lot of dinner on the table at that age.

2. I think anything we have would need to be voluntary. Just browsing into this site I probably wouldn't have bothered joining if I it was mandatory to complete something. There's too many other sites on the web and it might limit the number of folks willing to join.

3. Good as any.

4, 5 and 6. Sure, no problem.

nell67
12-28-2007, 04:10 PM
Wouldn't there be liability issues involved Sarge? I would hate for someone to "graduate" from our school go out and get hurt,and then try to sue the heck out of someone because of something they "learned".

Sarge47
12-28-2007, 04:14 PM
1. We've seen some folks join with a lot of info to bring to the table. I would hate to label someone a newby only to find out they had lived a primitive life for the last fifteen years or had taught survival at Ranger School. It's really a matter of semantics but even someone at 14 could have a lot of experience under their belt. I sure did at 14. I put a lot of dinner on the table at that age.

2. I think anything we have would need to be voluntary. Just browsing into this site I probably wouldn't have bothered joining if I it was mandatory to complete something. There's too many other sites on the web and it might limit the number of folks willing to join.

3. Good as any.

4, 5 and 6. Sure, no problem.

I agree with you on points #1 & #2, which is why I wouldn't want it to be exclusive. Some people have come onto this site seeking knowledge, others have knowledge to share, still others think they have the knowledge, but don't. Perhaps the "school" idea could be presented as an elective course of some kind, that's why I threw the idea out there so's you guys could look it over and add your input. NOTE: This is NOT "Sarge's Survival School"!:rolleyes:

Rick
12-28-2007, 04:17 PM
NOTE: This is NOT "Sarge's Survival School"!
Nope and didn't take it that way. All of us seem to learn something on a regular basis and there's nothing more healthy than being regular.

Tony uk
12-28-2007, 05:07 PM
I dont mean to offened anyone or cause problems with this idea, Which sounds really great 10/10 :D

But dont we need to ask Chris before trying to come up with something like this ?

Sarge47
12-28-2007, 07:43 PM
Wouldn't there be liability issues involved Sarge? I would hate for someone to "graduate" from our school go out and get hurt,and then try to sue the heck out of someone because of something they "learned".

...Seems like that could come up any time someone suggests a knife or anything else. I'm thinking more along the line of organizing the input we've accumulated into some sort of "classroom". Legal disclaimers could be added as well.:cool:

Sarge47
12-28-2007, 07:50 PM
...dont we need to ask Chris before trying to come up with something like this ?
Yep! But 1st I want to see how many would go with it before going to him. This is just an idea at this point and I wouldn't want it to interfere with the way the site is set up now; just an organized method of teaching the "Newbys" that come here to learn. Right now it seems as though we're constantly repeating ourselves and are doomed to re-creating threads on the same topic. The two most recent additions are "Knives" & "If you could only take one thing...". Maybe it would just be a way of collalating all the data accumulated so far into an easier format so that if a person clicked on a button labeled "Knives" for example all the Thread addresses would come up and that way we don't have the "redunantcy problem." I thought the "School" might be a way to give it some legitamacy.:confused:

nell67
12-28-2007, 07:51 PM
...Seems like that could come up any time someone suggests a knife or anything else. I'm thinking more along the line of organizing the input we've accumulated into some sort of "classroom". Legal disclaimers could be added as well.:cool:
True enough Sarge.

nell67
12-28-2007, 07:53 PM
Yep! But 1st I want to see how many would go with it before going to him. This is just an idea at this point and I wouldn't want it to interfere with the way the site is set up now; just an organized method of teaching the "Newbys" that come here to learn. Right now it seems as though we're constantly repeating ourselves and are doomed to re-creating threads on the same topic. The two most recent additions are "Knives" & "If you could only take one thing...". Maybe it would just be a way of collalating all the data accumulated so far into an easier format so that if a person clicked on a button labeled "Knives" for example all the Thread addresses would come up and that way we don't have the "redunantcy problem." I thought the "School" might be a way to give it some legitamacy.:confused:

Maybe you could add a "sticky" to the home page for new members benefit to ask them to search for the topic of interest before they start a new thread?

Tony uk
12-28-2007, 07:55 PM
Yep! But 1st I want to see how many would go with it before going to him. This is just an idea at this point and I wouldn't want it to interfere with the way the site is set up now; just an organized method of teaching the "Newbys" that come here to learn. Right now it seems as though we're constantly repeating ourselves and are doomed to re-creating threads on the same topic. The two most recent additions are "Knives" & "If you could only take one thing...". Maybe it would just be a way of collalating all the data accumulated so far into an easier format so that if a person clicked on a button labeled "Knives" for example all the Thread addresses would come up and that way we don't have the "redunantcy problem." I thought the "School" might be a way to give it some legitamacy.:confused:

Oh Sorry :p

It sounds like atop notch idea Sarge :) i dont see any reason why we cant pull it off, I say we go for it *CHARGE*

Sarge47
12-28-2007, 08:07 PM
When I was trying to find all the "Knife" threads to post for Lupo I visited several different forums. I left several behind like "Knife Sharpening", "Knife breaking", "Knife rusting", and so on. Maybe the answer is to use the Blog site, or something similar and have one brave soul go through it and either condense all the info, or post all the addresses. I like the 1st idea better because then all the kidding, debating, & "off-topic" posting could be excluded and only the "meat" of the subject in question displayed, but then that's only my viewpoint.:confused:

Tony uk
12-28-2007, 08:13 PM
When I was trying to find all the "Knife" threads to post for Lupo I visited several different forums. I left several behind like "Knife Sharpening", "Knife breaking", "Knife rusting", and so on. Maybe the answer is to use the Blog site, or something similar and have one brave soul go through it and either condense all the info, or post all the addresses. I like the 1st idea better because then all the kidding, debating, & "off-topic" posting could be excluded and only the "meat" of the subject in question displayed, but then that's only my viewpoint.:confused:

We could make a seperate site which is only a blog so we could and link it to these fourms, That way we could keep discussion and the actual info seperate

But thats work, Is the blogs on this site abal to handel all the info ?

Borelli
01-03-2008, 12:57 AM
The idea of having a sort of school is a pretty fun idea.

it would bring a lot more to this already great website....

condensing a whole bunch of the things that are floating around on the website into a goal completing process is one way to do it such as...

week 1: shelter construction
week 2: firecraft
week 3: water basics
week 4: tool and trap construction

somthing like that to have it set goals for the student....

well i have a bunch of ideas spinning through my head right now...i would love to see this website form a sort of instructional goal setting guide that somhow members could get together and participate in.

Sarge47
01-03-2008, 01:16 AM
I appreciate any ideas/input you can come up with! I think that there's a wealth of information here on products, ideas, experience, etc.. Take for example "Survival Kits". Do you know how many different threads we've got on that topic alone? And they're scattered in different forums as well.:cool:

Jay
01-03-2008, 04:29 AM
Sarge, that a pretty good idea.
Putting the info together in order of priority should work well. While I agree that serious info is the key, some anecdotes or personal experiences should be allowed provided that they support,clarify or highlight the main theme. In my experience most people remember stuff better if it comes in stroy form.

however that is not to say that info should not be presented in a logican step by step form. A combination of the two should work. Also the info needs to be carefully scrutinized by "experts" before being posted. So it should go to the panel first. If the info is not clear or some techniques are suspect the panel can communicate with the author & clarify matters or make other suggestions.

Liability or not, Legal disclaimers notwithstanding, if someone uses my info and gets hurt in the process I would feel responsible. We need to find a way to minimize that. (bad news spreads fast...it could ruin our credibility)

Guidelines for authors should also be considered..without being too restrictive.

Its a great idea but we need to discuss all the pro's & cons extensively before acutally getting in to it.

For my part I will help as much as I can in the form of articles, anecdotes, and experiences. (..although my stuff may not be relavant unless someone is comning down this way)

I say GO FOR IT!!

MCBushbaby
01-03-2008, 04:51 AM
It's a good idea in theory but in practice it'll most likely fall short of expectations. Schools do well because there is someone in the field with the students providing feedback live, not after the fact. Even if we provide feedback via the forums it's still third party. Can't really teach someone how to build a shelter until they actually do it a couple times themselves.

The forums are good for referencing specific topics that aren't covered anywhere else, but a virtual survival school? Meh, seems iffy to me

Rick
01-03-2008, 02:43 PM
Great things often come from ideas that seem counter intuitive or contrary to the "norm". I see no reason that theory and application would not be successful if we follow some of the guidelines above. Every survival book in print does exactly what you are describing. The only thing different here is the print medium and that would be an advantage because information and graphics could be updated where printed books cannot without additional printings.

Borelli
01-03-2008, 02:56 PM
it would be cool if there could be some school in the summer time, but that is probably not going to work since most of the people on hee that are eligable to do such a thing might not want to or are working so they wouldnt have time to take off

Rick
01-03-2008, 03:06 PM
You make time to do what you are passionate about. There are a lot of survival and wilderness living schools and people attend them all the time. There's no reason something here couldn't be successful. You just have to believe in your dreams.

Borelli
01-03-2008, 03:09 PM
well then.....that is what i was hoping for

AdventureDoc
01-03-2008, 04:01 PM
Awesome Idea!

Sarge47
01-03-2008, 05:50 PM
Awesome Idea!

I'm open to any "how-to" input here!:eek:

Tony uk
01-03-2008, 06:10 PM
I think we should at the end of each topic (Lesson if you want to call it that) include a test which is marked by an experianced member on this site, Then you could give pointers where the person should look at more or if you think that they are progressing well

MCBushbaby
01-03-2008, 07:01 PM
I think that people coming to this site to learn are learning just fine the way the politics is set up now.. all that needs to be done is to organize the forum in an easier format to follow logic.

Quoted for truth!

Instead of having "General Survival Topics" "Survival Products" and that third one... let's have chris start separating the forums into logical subforums.

Bushcraft
->cordage
->weaving
->ancient skills (fish hooks, flintnapping, etc)

Shelters
->permanent structures
->ponchos
->Survival shelters (debris lean-to, a-frame, debris hut, desert shelters, elevated, etc)
->Other (Trash bags, hammocks)

Fire
->Friction
->Modern
->Ancient
->other (potassium permanganate... since that seems to have attracted a lot of people since Les aired it, flare gun, etc)

Navigation
->primative (wayward winds, sun, moon, stars)
->compass, orienteering
->other (?)

...

Then when we make threads in these subforums, we can have the good ones stickied (or placed at the top of the thread list permanently)


EDIT: OH! And a subforum for equipment recommendations and reviews. Growing popularity will undoubtedly have more threads "what knife should I get" or "I have this pack, what do you guys think of it", etc

AdventureDoc
01-03-2008, 07:06 PM
I kinda like the wikipedia thing. Some members, who choose and are accepted, can edit pages on subjects such as mentioned above. That way, many can submit ideas, topics, etc. on the subject?

Sarge47
01-03-2008, 07:44 PM
I've lateraled the ball to you guys; I'm "Sarge", right? That means I'm "intermediate". You guys are coming up with some great thoughts here. If it jsust gets organized that will solve a lot of problems!:cool:

Rick
01-03-2008, 08:23 PM
Actually, I like both ideas. Mitch has offered a sound idea about arranging the forum IMHO and a wiki format could replace(? in addition to?) the main page. There will always be questions from people whether they are newbies or old hands and the forum offers that avenue for a quick answer. I've learned tons just reading some of your threads.

Expanding the forum to something like Mitch suggested is pretty simple. Chris just has to add the categories and subcats.

Perhaps a blog could be established at a administrator or super moderator level and utilize it much as Chris has done with the survival manual on the front page for the wiki type format.

Gray Wolf
01-03-2008, 08:27 PM
I think this is a great idea. We have people here that have experience in all parts of the US, Canada, UK, So. America and even Sri Lanka!!! I feel that is extremely important for a Survival School.

Canadian-guerilla
01-03-2008, 09:09 PM
i think somewhere in there should be
something on survival psychology

http://www.deepsurvival.com/

and maybe a thread on survival quotes ?

Sarge47
01-03-2008, 09:28 PM
1st I think we need to preserve the informal setting we now enjoy here. I'm not thinking about turning this site into a school or a book, but rather organizing all the input we've received in the past into proper categories for access by anyone who wants to research what we've offered up so far without all the jokes and stuff. The "Wiki" idea is not bad. The label, "School", was only to give it a title as something other than "Blog".

Next, I wouldn't know how to do it, but maybe Chris can jump into his phone booth, put on his "admin" costume and save the day here. I don't see why we can't have the best of both worlds!:cool:

mbarnatl
01-03-2008, 09:34 PM
Most sites use a sticky from all the info gathered from a thread/threads on the same subject and post it at the top of the category of that forum section.

@Sarge: I can send you a link in a PM to another site to show you an example of it. If you would like?

Sarge47
01-03-2008, 09:36 PM
Most sites use a sticky from all the info gathered from a thread/threads on the same subject and post it at the top of the category of that forum section.

@Sarge: I can send you a link in a PM to another site to show you an example of it. If you would like?

Wouldn't Chris know how to do this?:confused:

mbarnatl
01-03-2008, 09:37 PM
I would think so.

mbarnatl
01-03-2008, 09:39 PM
He did it in the Forum feedback (http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=8) section of the forum... so yes he does.

Sarge47
01-03-2008, 09:41 PM
Maybe he can help out here.:eek:

Tony uk
01-03-2008, 09:44 PM
Its SOO easy to stick a thread Sarge

Go into the thred and at the mod options bit at the bottom press Pin Topic or it should be like that to pin it

Simple :D

Rick
01-03-2008, 10:12 PM
In vBulletin, from the admin signon, there is a section called Forums and Moderators. He can use the Forum Mgr. to make any changes we described or Add New Forum to add any new ones. Yes, it's pretty simple.

DEET
01-04-2008, 08:35 PM
A vast majority of all the information someone would need to know is in the manual that can be accessed on the home page. Most of the questions I have seen posted on this site can be answered by simply taking the time to sort through the huge amount of information already put into an outline subjigated form on the home page. I'm not saying the idea is bad I'm simply saying it doesn't really seem neccessary. I've found that usually when someone posts the old "if you could only take one thing" thread it is simply because they want to have a big thread.

Sarge47
01-04-2008, 10:32 PM
There are many things that the US Military Manual on the front page does NOT cover. True, if you happen to find yourself lost from your platoon in enemy territory then, yes, the manual will help. However there are many things on here that go above & beyond that. The many different Knife brands and the experiences one has had with them. The latest Survival gear, or gear that the book does not touch on. Equipment available, where to find it, the lowest price,
emergency food, Other books & videos, Info from people who are right now actually living in areas that a lot of us would like to go to someday, multi-use items....I can go on & on. The military survival manual can help only to a certain extent; this forum has reached way beyond that, hence the problem! We've grown, people!:eek::cool:

Jay
01-05-2008, 02:33 AM
A vast majority of all the information someone would need to know is in the manual that can be accessed on the home page. Most of the questions I have seen posted on this site can be answered by simply taking the time to sort through the huge amount of information already put into an outline subjigated form on the home page. I'm not saying the idea is bad I'm simply saying it doesn't really seem neccessary. I've found that usually when someone posts the old "if you could only take one thing" thread it is simply because they want to have a big thread.

I agree that most of the basic info here can be found in a good survival manual.
But in my humble openion, what is priceless is the personal experiences posted here. they come from people who's comfort level with the wilderness varies, who are geographically speaking "poles apart". Ditto background, previous experiences, personal findings etc. A good example is the bow drill firemaking. The manual says ..." soft wood for base board/hard wood for spindle or vice versa.." Great info!!! but howmuch more whorthwhile to know that ""if you are in .......Use ......for the baseboard and ....fro the spindle!!! also someone will say i tried this and this but it only worked partly..Why?? others will try out the samething and try to come up with the answers...This applies to all the topics. The bottom line is that our knowledge and techniques are evolving all the time! By having the infor in one place any newcommer can read it and save a lot of time an elbow grease learning some of the techniques.

( I just went through an old old diary i kept and found that I had worked on the bow drill fire for 32 day for an average of 4-5 hrs a day before I got my first ember!) there was no scuh thing as internet here at that time to the best of my knowledge....In fact I had never even seen a computer!!

How much easier it is today!

Elkchsr
01-05-2008, 03:10 AM
I'm new here, but it seems like this thread has great potential

I've been in most of the areas to some extent of the people posting on this thread (except Sri Lanka)

I just finished an online bachelor course on business and operations management about a year ago

One of the tools they utilized to great success was a set time for an online chat that would run along the guidelines of a set topic for that session

The teacher (obviously) would be the narrator and guide to keep the session on topic and moving along

The sessions would be archived (some one could edit most of the chatter out to make for easier reading and streamlined)

You could set up certain people as moderators or the leader during the sessions so the strongest individual in that topic (or one who wanted to lead some specialty) would lead the discussion

This means any one on the board (newbie’s or oldsters) could lead a discussion and any one or every one could join in

This would utilize those new people who have a lot of experience but just signed on and give any one who wanted to lead a topic the chance to teach others what they know while learning from every one jumping in on the topic

I also like the stories; these put a context to a subject and add depth so a fuller picture can be visualized on what is going on during the experience

hermitman
01-21-2008, 10:23 PM
I think it would be a great idea but things couldn't be all online there is only so much people can learn without being there. Sometimes if I have questions or need a different opinion it is hard to get everything I need from the internet. From the looks of things you guys have a lot of experience and knowlege. Even though I like to think I have a good deal of knowlege about wilderness survival considering I am 17 but would love to learn and clear up some things. // Just a question wut is the deal with the wolves ?

Sarge47
01-21-2008, 11:16 PM
// Just a question wut is the deal with the wolves ?

You need to do your homework, check this out...all of it, maybe it'll help.

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1518 :cool:

hermitman
01-21-2008, 11:19 PM
K thanks for clearing that up.

Sarge47
01-21-2008, 11:30 PM
K thanks for clearing that up.

No problemo H-man! like your Bear Avatar BTW!:D

Beo
01-23-2008, 11:23 AM
Don't mean to be the nay sayer, but isn't everything covered on the main page of this site, scroll down and it has everything if you read it.
Although this could be a great idea, I agree an on-line course is good but how do you know if people are doing it or saying they are.

tracks
01-23-2008, 12:05 PM
RICK Has asked about it before...videos...I know its complicated and down right difficult to do when you'r alone but takes some of the questionable interatation out of the writen word.

Rick
01-23-2008, 12:30 PM
Shower me with praise and gratitudes all you want. I can be bought!! But it was actually Chris with the video idea.

tracks
01-23-2008, 12:43 PM
I have a few short videos my wife and daughters shot on different ocasions, But they would probably have to be edited to the point of useless. A man becomes a diferent animal when he has been in the woods for a little while.

BruceZed
01-23-2008, 06:25 PM
I am considered a Newbie on this Forum, but I have been teaching Wilderness Survival full time for over 13 years and before that point (September 1994) practicing and teaching part time for at least that long. This might work, except for one major point you would need to address very carefully. We give no certificates out at BWI except to those who go out into the wilderness with us for long enough to actually practice those skills properly. How would anyone know that they actually mastered those skills. Nature will eventually provide the test to each of us who travel in the wilderness, but what if they fail and there training was to blame. If I give you some advise online, it just that advise. If I teach you on a formal course (online or not) most people would expect a lot more.

Beo
01-23-2008, 06:31 PM
Totally agree BruceZed, and welcome aboard. Liability is a big problem in this Law Suit happy country we live in. Being new to the forum does not mean your a newbie to wilderness survival, again welcome aboard bro.

Assassin Pilot
01-23-2008, 09:42 PM
I think if we are to do this, we should organize the website into something like:

common / generic survival knowledge (knives, BOBs, fire, signaling)
forest survival knowledge (basic shelters, fishing, mushrooms)
ocean survival knowledge (staying dry / warm, rough seas, water)
sub-zero survival knowledge (fire, shelter, frostbite, food)
tropical survival knowledge (poisonous animals / plants)
desert survival knowledge (heat issues, food, water, eye coverage)

that way it is easy for the newbie to see all the site has to offer, without being overwhelmed. I remember visiting several sites before this one and saying "holy ****" at the disorganization of the website. Even this one has a lot, but at least it was simpler.

As for liability, we can just have them check a box saying "I understand that so-and-so does not take any liability or responsibility for any actions that I take based on what I learned here.....". Or just host the website in a completely different country that doesn't care at all. Like Luxembourg :)

Rick
01-24-2008, 08:39 AM
We're starting to rehash some of the same things not that the ideas aren't good. Mitch laid out a nice format on Post 26 of this thread.

I don't think the intent (correct me if I'm wrong, Sarge) was to "graduate" anyone but to allow them to reach higher levels of knowledge.

Sarge - You might want to lay out your thoughts on the appointed group but I read that as the folks that would approve material to be added, not for "graduating" anyone.

CTracker
01-26-2008, 02:46 AM
Since I'm the noob, I'd like to make an observation. If this idea goes beyond the 'chat' stage, I think everyone will agree that if/when it becomes successful bandwidth consumption will rise. Somebody needs to pay for that consumption. Some sort of 'subscription' may be necessary to keep it successful and hopefully offset any additional expenses with upkeep & maintenance. Although vBulletin® is probably the best commercial software, it still isn't free. What about the Server? Is it dedicated or shared? Will the Wolf-Pack be turned off with out notice because we surpassed our limits? The window/bumper stickers come to mind, but what about 'branded' hats etc.? I'm not suggesting we throw money at it to make it work, but these issues will need to be addressed. I think we already have a Committee Chairman cough Sarge cough. . . :)

One another note, I think I'd forget about the 'mushroom' lesson. That's asking for trouble.

Rick
01-26-2008, 07:30 AM
Chris told us not to worry about the band width. In fact, he is soliciting videos. See his sticky.

hermitman
01-26-2008, 01:13 PM
Hey wolf pack I just wanted to tell you that you have your word cut out for you. While I was scanning the internet I found www.trackerschool.com it looks pretty intense.

Gray Wolf
01-28-2008, 06:58 PM
Hey wolf pack I just wanted to tell you that you have your word cut out for you. While I was scanning the internet I found www.trackerschool.com it looks pretty intense.

hermitman, this is not the same, there are many Survival Schools out there, they charge $'s, like the one you found (below). That's not what this is about.

I like your avatar, looks like my ex-wife when I stayed out to long :eek:

Tracker School FAQs : Class Prices

How much do your courses cost?
See individual classes for pricing.

How much of a deposit do I have to put down to reserve my space for a class?
A minimum $300 deposit is required for all 7 and 10 day classes. A minimum $475 deposit is required for all 3 day intensives. Please read our Registration and Cancellation Policy before registering for a class.

BruceZed
01-29-2008, 01:45 PM
Well I am back to the Woods next week, I will make a few short skill building videos and you guys can see if they are what you are looking for.

Rick
01-29-2008, 01:49 PM
If you need any highly paid bad actors just have your people call my people.:D