You Be The Judge

[Ken]

A lot of our threads have raised the question of whether or not we, as individuals, have the ability to survive in the wilderness or are simply armchair wannabes.

So, I'll give you a scenario and pose the question in an anonymous poll.

The Scenario

1. In 2 hours, you will be picked up at your home and transported by helicopter to the most isolated and challenging wilderness terrain, within 200 miles of your home, under the worst weather conditions common for that area.

2. You will be informed in advance of the location you will be dropped off at, and will have 2 hours to assemble a pack with whatever you choose to carry, weighing no more than 50 lbs., and you can dress as you feel is appropriate.

3. In this scenario, you will not suffer a life threatening accident (such as a broken back) or a sudden illness (such as a heart attack, stroke, etc.).

4. You will have no other human contact for 2 weeks.

5. Once you are dropped off, you can choose to stay in place or to move by foot to another location, but either way, you must remain alone in the wilderness for 2 weeks.

6. If, at the end of the 2 weeks, you are still alive, you have an EPIRB that you can activate in order to be picked up by helicopter within the hour.

The Question

ARE YOU CONFIDENT THAT YOU HAVE SUFFICIENT KNOWLEDGE AND EXPERIENCE TO SURVIVE?

[Justin Case]

Thats easy, Yes. every confidence
since it would be the desert for me, I would take 40 pounds of water and 10 pounds in a pack consisting of a white tarp for shelter,sleeping bag,food and a good book.

[BENESSE]

Given that it's only 2 weeks and I have some advance notice, then yes.
I've no doubt that I can make it.

[Rick]

I think there's a poll coming.

EDIT************See?!

[Ken]

Thats easy, since it would be the desert for me, I would take 40 pounds of water and 10 pounds in a pack consisting of a white tarp for shelter,sleeping bagefood and a good book.

That's 43 oz. of water a day. A little over a quart. In the dessert. :innocent:

[Rick]

Of course you can pee it over and over so it's actually quite a lot. (JOKE!)

[LowKey]

Justin do you know how to make a solar still?

Yup, I could make it 2 weeks, if the 200 miles doesn't include being dropped in a boat 150 miles offshore...

[Justin Case]

That's 43 oz. of water a day. A little over a quart. In the dessert. :innocent:
I think that would be enough, especially if I am just laying under my tarp reading a book ,,

Justin do you know how to make a solar still?



Yes sir ;)

[Ken]

I think that would be enough, especially if I am just laying under my tarp reading a book ,,


Yes sir ;)

Looking at what you're taking with you, my guess is you'll be dead in about 5 days. :innocent:

[Sourdough]

I voted No.....that I would fail to survive, and the reason is that is the painful truth. The deal breaker is the two hours to prep, and the worst possible weather conditions, and to a lesser extent the 50# max pack.

To survive in -70* Below arctic weather with 110 mile per hour wind, I would need all I could carry, about 120/140 pounds of gear, and 6 hours to prep.

Could I do it in the summer.....easy. OK, not easy but doable.

[Justin Case]

Looking at what you're taking with you, my guess is you'll be dead in about 5 days. :innocent:

How do you figure ? I have a helicopter dropping me off and picking me up, A quart of water a day is plenty if not exerting , a little food and shelter, what else would I need ??

[BENESSE]

Justin do you know how to make a solar still?

Yup, I could make it 2 weeks, if the 200 miles doesn't include being dropped in a boat 150 miles offshore...

Excellent point...didn't even think about that, but can relate.

[Ken]

I voted No.....that I would fail to survive, and the reason is that is the painful truth. The deal breaker is the two hours to prep, and the worst possible weather conditions, and to a lesser extent the 50# max pack.

To survive in -40* Below arctic weather with 60 mile per hour wind, I would need all I could carry, about 120/140 pounds of gear, and 6 hours to prep.

Could I do it in the summer.....easy. OK, not easy but doable.

For me, the location would be on the top of Mt. Washington in the dead of winter. Worst weather in the world.

http://giddy.org/wash/warning_sign.jpg

"Mount Washington, the highest peak in the northeast, is known for its steep slopes, its wild and barren expanses, and most of all, its severe weather. The "Home of the World's Worst Weather," Mount Washington's extreme conditions rival those of Mount Everest and the Polar regions." http://www.mountwashington.org/education/daytrips/

I've been there. The key is to dress and gear-up properly, and to safely get off that mountain ASAP.

[Ken]

How do you figure ? I have a helicopter dropping me off and picking me up, A quart of water a day is plenty if not exerting , a little food and shelter, what else would I need ??

A helluva' lot more water. :innocent:

[COWBOYSURVIVAL]

Sounds like a fun 2 weeks in the swamp to me!

[LowKey]

Then I have to change my vote... I considered winter, not being tossed in a boat in January, but not dropped on Mt.W.

[Sourdough]

I'll say the top of 20,400 foot Mount McKinley in winter would be worse. -70* and over 100 MPH wind.

[Pict]

Given two hours, my gear, and a helicopter ride, plus a few extra pounds of fat to lose, I'd do it for the helicopter ride.

I'm just going to assume I don't have to obey the law for this trip and can eat whatever I want. Sounds like a cool trip actually.

Mac

[Justin Case]

A helluva' lot more water. :innocent:

I will get damned thirsty, but if i limit myself to a quart a day, I think I could do it :)

[Ken]

I'll say the top of 20,400 foot Mount McKinley in winter would be worse. -70* and over 100 MPH wind.

Oh yeah? :innocent:

"No New England forecasts or generalizations apply to the weather on Mount Washington (http://www.mountwashington.org/) in New Hampshire.

This highest peak in New England (6288 ft, 1917 meters) is said to have the worst weather in all the USA.

New Englanders delight in exchanging horror stories of the latest report of extreme weather: winds of 150 miles per hour (the record is 211 mph/340 kph!), temperatures of -47°F/-99°C, wind-chill factors that don't seem earthly.

I have hiked up Mount Washington on the last day in August, leaving a base camp of warm sunny summer weather, only to find the temperature at the summit to be 14°F (-10°C), the winds 114 mph (184 kph), and heavy snow and ice."

http://www.newenglandtravelplanner.com/whentogo/climate/mt_washington.html

[BENESSE]

Let the urinary Olympics begin! :)

[your_comforting_company]

Drop me within 200 miles of here and I'm still in my element. Unless that includes being dropped in the gulf of mexico.. Not sure I could swim that far.
Take me out of my element, like drop me in the desert, and the answer changes to no, but there are no deserts within 200 miles of me, nor arctic tundras.
It might take me a few minutes to put my hands on some "extra items" I'd like to take, like books and stuff, but 2 hours would be more than enough time for me to prep for any terrain within 200 miles of my CL (except the ocean).

[Ken]

Let the urinary Olympics begin! :)

Sarge wouldn't miss that event for the world. :innocent:

[BENESSE]

Nor you, participating in it. :sneaky2:

[NightShade]

I wouldbe on Mt. Washington as well...thechallenge would be getting off the mountain asap... more people have died on Mt. W than Mt. Everest...I now the trails tho, as I have hiked it many times.
But then it would be 2 weeks in White Mnts. National Forest... I've done that before, just with more prep time.

[Batch]

If we go 12 miles east I will be in the Atlantic Ocean. Less than 100 miles west and I'll be in the Gulf of Mexico. 200 miles north and I am at Disney. We go south and I am in the Florida Keys.

If you put me anywhere except the water I'll just grab my stuff out of the truck and spend the rest of the two hours enjoying my free helicopter ride. The worst weather would be a hurricane I guess. That's kind of a crap shoot. If it is any other weather, such as a thunderstorm, well that is a typical day out for us. LOL

I have been stranded in a boat in the two harshest environments down here. Loxahatchee National Wildlife Preserve and the Everglades. I rowed out of Loxahatchee with one oar on the bow of a 16' runabout with a 15 mile head wind in driving rain during a lightning storm in the middle of the night. Drop me in the river of grass or Loxahatchee by helicopter and I'll know where you are dropping me and make it to a bay head quickly and a levee when it is safe to travel. You drop me blind folded and things get complicated.

Oh, I am also going to hate you if you drop me in the mangroves. 10,000 Islands would be tough. But, you would have to count that as water. Besides how are you going to land a helicopter there?

[Sourdough]

Well, this just sucks, I am the only failure..........:tongue_smilie:

[Winter]

2 weeks stationary is doable. Worst weather possible? Iffy.

If I get lucky enough to be on the seashore in the lee. That would be doable.

Worst weather here is driving rain and sustained 120mph winds for 3 days. No helicopter is flying in that crap.

I voted "yes" because confidence, even if you are fooling yourself, is better than no confidence.

[Sourdough]

2 weeks stationary is doable. Worst weather possible? Iffy.

If I get lucky enough to be on the seashore in the lee. That would be doable.

Worst weather here is driving rain and sustained 120mph winds for 3 days. No helicopter is flying in that crap.

I voted "yes" because confidence, even if you are fooling yourself, is better than no confidence.


Your more than 200 miles from jagged rock mountains towering over 12,000 feet......?????

[wareagle69]

two weeks worst weather possible? thats -40 in the dead of january here, hmmm, well don't need two hours to pack, as the pack is always ready but thats a tough go 2 weeks at -40, normally i could go 2 weeks sans food, but in that weather i would need lots of calories, not sure how well that would work out for me, might lose out to frostbite.
you guys say i am arogant with my responses? ha just read some of what has been written here and see who is arrogant and out of touch with reality and has no long term boots in the feild time, how do ya like me now? threads like this just prove easily some peoples skill set

[Winter]

OK, I stand corrected. If I'm put in the worst place within 200 miles in the worst weather possible I'm a dead man.

Not even a yeti could do it.

I reread the OP and realized it said worst terrain as well as worse weather.

[Winnie]

Well, this just sucks, I am the only failure..........:tongue_smilie:

No you're not SD. I voted no as well. 200miles radius from where I live is the North Sea, London(blueghhh), the Penines, The Lake District, The peak District, Somerset Levels and so on... The only terrain I don't have is desert. I'd need longer than 2 hrs to pack, and I don't have the kit to survive some of those places. I may be a dolly, but I'm not stupid. They'd have to drag me out kicking and screaming. I'm a bug-in kind of girl.

[Batch]

See its that terrain thing that makes my life easy. I went out willingly into 100 percent humidity, walking for hours in water in feels like temperatures the 100 degree mark. There is zero evaporation and no breeze. That is what I do for fun. The funny thing was yesterday even the water was too hot.

But, shelter is ample even with out my tent or hammock. Water is not a problem. Fire is obtainable now that I have bow drill experience. Food is abundant.

I grew up and have worked in this heat and weather my whole life. I don't drink cold water. I drink water at room or air temperature.

When that storm comes and then goes and you are hit with super high humidity and direct sun. Ugggghhhh!

But, that is every day during the wet season in South Florida.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/bigcypress/thisweek.jpg

[Ken]

you guys say i am arogant with my responses?

Usually! :)


ha just read some of what has been written here and see who is arrogant and out of touch with reality and has no long term boots in the feild time,

That's merely an assumption on your part, WE. Why don't you ask those who you question or doubt whether or not they've done it before?


how do ya like me now?

About the same as before your post. :innocent:


threads like this just prove easily some peoples skill set

Maybe, maybe not. Shouldn't you ask a few more questions before you jump to that conclusion?

[BENESSE]

two weeks worst weather possible? thats -40 in the dead of january here, hmmm, well don't need two hours to pack, as the pack is always ready but thats a tough go 2 weeks at -40, normally i could go 2 weeks sans food, but in that weather i would need lots of calories, not sure how well that would work out for me, might lose out to frostbite.
you guys say i am arogant with my responses? ha just read some of what has been written here and see who is arrogant and out of touch with reality and has no long term boots in the feild time, how do ya like me now? threads like this just prove easily some peoples skill set

With that attitude, you're lucky if someone doesn't choke the living daylights out of you while you are napping. Starting with Mrs. WE. :)
I'd worry about that before I even went out into the wilderness with my perfect little BOB.

[Ken]

two weeks worst weather possible? thats -40 in the dead of january here, hmmm, well don't need two hours to pack, as the pack is always ready but thats a tough go 2 weeks at -40, normally i could go 2 weeks sans food, but in that weather i would need lots of calories, not sure how well that would work out for me, might lose out to frostbite.
you guys say i am arogant with my responses? ha just read some of what has been written here and see who is arrogant and out of touch with reality and has no long term boots in the feild time, how do ya like me now? threads like this just prove easily some peoples skill set

Hey WE? I know that you have strong opinions about posting only from experience and not "theory."

I've never gone 2 weeks without food. However, you posted "normally i could go 2 weeks sans food." Therefore, I'm led to believe that you have had plenty of experience doing this.

How about telling us about the times you've gone 2 weeks without food, and what we can expect if we try that ourselves? :innocent:

[Camp10]

The OP said "two hours from now you will be picked up" and dropped off in "challenging wilderness terrain" so I vote yes. Even Mt Washington wont be scary 2 hours from right now and "wilderness terrain" rules out the ocean, right? Worst possible weather conditions this time of year is thunder storms with wind. If a helicopter can land in the weather, and it is within 200 miles I am fairly confident I can survive it for two weeks.

[Rick]

The question is do you think you can survive? Do YOU think you can survive? I think I can given the scenario and it doesn't matter a whit what anyone else thinks. If I'm wrong (shrug).

[crashdive123]

To answer the OP - Yes.

[Sarge47]

I'm dead! 200 miles away for the worst terrain is the ghettos of Chicago! I am totally screwed!

Justin, you're being dropped into the shark infested ocean dude! The only thing the water you take along is going to do is help you pee your pants better! :sneaky2:

Nice thread Ken! However let's say instead of "200" miles away it's "2000" miles! That puts a different spin on things! I opt for Disneyland! :innocent:

WE, I hate to say this, but I somewhat agree with you. :innocent:

[Stargazer]

Im on Mt Washington with the rest of you clowns.I for one would die.The way I see it is like this.Ken would double dog dare me to stick my tongue to the chains anchoring the buildings to the top of the mountain.Becuase of the cold my brain would not be working well and I would do it. All would be good for about 15 min or until night fell.Then I would be a known as Frozen Joe.Ken and Nightshade would then use me as a tobogon to ride down to safety.Yup im a gonner.

[Justin Case]

two weeks worst weather possible? thats -40 in the dead of january here, hmmm, well don't need two hours to pack, as the pack is always ready but thats a tough go 2 weeks at -40, normally i could go 2 weeks sans food, but in that weather i would need lots of calories, not sure how well that would work out for me, might lose out to frostbite.
you guys say i am arogant with my responses? ha just read some of what has been written here and see who is arrogant and out of touch with reality and has no long term boots in the feild time, how do ya like me now? threads like this just prove easily some peoples skill set

i think you would irritate yourself to death within a week :sneaky2: Why are you so condescending ? You claim you are an "Expert" , well I believe you, An "Ex" is something that once was, and a "spurt" is just a drip under pressure, :cool:

[Ole WV Coot]

Yep, shouldn't be much of a problem.

[Pal334]

For me , I am confident that it is doable. Not a walk in the park, but doable. As Pic mentioned, I have a few extra pounds on board that I could afford to lose.

[NightShade]

.Ken and Nightshade would then use me as a tobogon to ride down to safety.Yup im a gonner.

haha... I think the people who ski Tuckerman's Ravine are crazy... but using your dead hiking buddy as an emergency tobogan?.... Thats just being resourceful!

[Ken]

haha... I think the people who ski Tuckerman's Ravine are crazy...

:innocent: Kids sometimes believe in immortality, ya' know. :sneaky2:

[Erratus Animus]

A lot of our threads have raised the question of whether or not we, as individuals, have the ability to survive in the wilderness or are simply armchair wannabes.

So, I'll give you a scenario and pose the question in an anonymous poll.

The Scenario

1. In 2 hours, you will be picked up at your home and transported by helicopter to the most isolated and challenging wilderness terrain, within 200 miles of your home, under the worst weather conditions common for that area.

2. You will be informed in advance of the location you will be dropped off at, and will have 2 hours to assemble a pack with whatever you choose to carry, weighing no more than 50 lbs., and you can dress as you feel is appropriate.

3. In this scenario, you will not suffer a life threatening accident (such as a broken back) or a sudden illness (such as a heart attack, stroke, etc.).

4. You will have no other human contact for 2 weeks.

5. Once you are dropped off, you can choose to stay in place or to move by foot to another location, but either way, you must remain alone in the wilderness for 2 weeks.

6. If, at the end of the 2 weeks, you are still alive, you have an EPIRB that you can activate in order to be picked up by helicopter within the hour.

The Question

ARE YOU CONFIDENT THAT YOU HAVE SUFFICIENT KNOWLEDGE AND EXPERIENCE TO SURVIVE?

You forgot the best part; THIS MESSAGE WILL SELF DESTRUCT IN 5 SECONDS!:innocent:

[Erratus Animus]

Let the urinary Olympics begin! :)

Now that is funny!!

[krazykangaroo]

Easy, especially as I live this every day. Plenty of native foods here and mild weather all year round. If I was over there with your winter conditions it would be a different story though.

[dolfan87]

I voted I would survive until I read the actual rules of the game. I would not survive, and I honestly don't believe anyone would survive.

I live in one of the hottest/driest cities in the country. You would simply have to drop me about 3 miles from my backyard in the desert, and if I wasn't allowed to walk home (if I had to stay out there) I would die.

Even if I brought the entire 50 lbs in water, it wouldn't be enough. Temperatures here are usually over 110 degrees, and most likely more like 115+

Now, it IS monsoon season here right now. So IF I took the entire 50 lbs in water, and I was also able to make shelter, fire, and a water catching system, (and it actually rained where I was a few times) then yes maybe it would be possible.

I can (and have) made fire with nothing but things I have found in the desert. I can also make shelter.

So it would be up to Mother Nature on the rain right now.

I'd give myself 20-30% of a chance to live.

[SARKY]

Does that 200 miles include tossing me in the ocean???? If not easily done!

[rebel]

Yep,.....good post/thread.

[rwc1969]

I'll have to think about it.

[Rick]

I would not survive, and I honestly don't believe anyone would survive.

Well, try this. 200 miles from me in any direction puts me in an 85°F day time environment. Two weeks will probably see some rain but not a lot this time of year (I have two hours to get ready). All rivers, ponds and lakes have water as do most creeks and even in a dry creek around here you can generally find water because the water table is pretty shallow. Wild edibles are abundant and so is fish and game.

If you make it the worst weather ever then it would either be scorcher hot, which it has been (actual temps 96°F) with high humidity or non-stop rain. We've seen both. Not too tough to survive in. Uncomfortable as heck but not deadly with just a bit of foresight and knowledge.

[Alec_end]

I reckon that I could survive anywhere within 200 miles from where I am now unless you’re throwing me in the ocean and that would be mean because of all the sharks off the Aussie coast. The main reason that I think I would survive is not that I believe that I have a great skill set but that the environment doesn’t really reach the extremes anywhere within 200 miles of my house. The coldest it has ever been within 200miles was 14 degrees Fahrenheit and the warmest it has ever been within 200 miles of my house was 125.6 degrees Fahrenheit. Just an an example of how relatively spread out Australia 200 miles away i wouldn't even leave my state.

[dolfan87]

Well, try this. 200 miles from me in any direction puts me in an 85°F day time environment. Two weeks will probably see some rain but not a lot this time of year (I have two hours to get ready). All rivers, ponds and lakes have water as do most creeks and even in a dry creek around here you can generally find water because the water table is pretty shallow. Wild edibles are abundant and so is fish and game.

If you make it the worst weather ever then it would either be scorcher hot, which it has been (actual temps 96°F) with high humidity or non-stop rain. We've seen both. Not too tough to survive in. Uncomfortable as heck but not deadly with just a bit of foresight and knowledge.

Rick, I have no doubt you would survive. ;)

I meant I don't think anyone would survive here where I am at.

[roar-k]

The worst case scenario for me would be Atlanta. Think I am joking? Some Urban Jungles are more dangerous than you think. Many of us practice wilderness survival, but how many of us practice urban survival? Water procurement, sanitation, shelter, and protection against predators take on a different tone in these areas.

Not counting that I would probably be dropped in the GSMNP. I have hiked, camped, and backpacked all over that park for my entire life. But to survive? It would all depend on the time of year. Late Spring and Summer I would say I have a high chance of success, but Fall, Winter, or Early Spring, heck no. The reason being that I have not practiced my skills in wet, snowy, or cold conditions.

EDIT: I only partially read the first post so forgive me.

[Rick]

I spent a lot of time in Atlanta a couple of years ago. Not my favorite city. I was in Buckhead off Lenox Rd. so it wasn't like I was in the worst part of town but you don't have to stray very far to find yourself in uncomfortable surroundings.

My bad, Dolfan. My apologies.

[Pal334]

The responses do show that we forum members live in widely diverse environments. If I lived in the "Great North", or the desert areas ,you can bet your bottom dollar that my response would be different. Here in NJ the 200 mile radius gives a "relatively" less harsh environment to deal with. Still not a "cake walk", but I would think doable.

[hunter63]

I have been reading this poll, and trying to come up with an area, that would fit the rules.
The harshest weather would be dead of winter, or Lake Michigan.

Also reviewing my gear and amount you can pack, I probably would die as it stands.

Given 2 hours to prepare and 50# Max I gotta say that would be a tough challenge.

Even though, gear plus food might fit the 50 lbs, and would be ready to go, in 2 hrs, shelter would be a problem depending on location.

Two weeks is a long time, generally carried provisions, tend to last 3 to 7 days, and time of year would make it tough to forage, I gonna say possible, but very tough.

I guess if I did make it I wouldn't be real happy.

Second choice should have been "I don't have the ability or experience or desire to attempt this yet.

[Trabitha]

Taking into the personal training I've received from my husband and the supplies I have on hand, I know for a fact that I can live 2 weeks and honestly...I love it out in the middle of nowhere so much, you would have a hard time getting me to come home! LOL!!
I think the only thing I would me would be human contact. Give me my husband and my son, and I would NEVER come back. ;)

My pack revolves around what I hate most. Cold. Spring and summer time is rather easy for me...winter kills me. I think I've covered most of the possible situations with my current supply and have trained for weeks with my full pack so I know I can move to a better location if need be.

[Stargazer]

haha... I think the people who ski Tuckerman's Ravine are crazy... but using your dead hiking buddy as an emergency tobogan?.... Thats just being resourceful!

Can you imagine the speed you would get sledding down Tuckerman's.Put Ken as lead rider, you can use him to cushion your blow when you crash.

[crashdive123]

Can you imagine the speed you would get sledding down Tuckerman's.Put Ken as lead rider, you can use him to cushion your blow when you crash.

I'll pass, thank you.:innocent:

[trax]

I'd survive, but it wouldn't be pleasant. The one thing people reading these posts need to bear in mind, I've said this before and I'll say it again, you can go X days without food and X days without water or whatever, but you can't function properly during that time frame. Same goes for exposure to the elements. So if you know up front that the chopper's coming back in 2 weeks, do all the prep work you can in the first few days, before supplies start running out or you start freezing to death. 200 miles for me would be pretty similar environment to what WarEagle described.

[hunter63]

This has been an interesting drill on what you have prepared, weight wise.

I guessing most everyone that considers themselves prepared with a BOB has a whole lot more than #50 pounds, ready.

I could spend a lot more than 2 hours desiding how to parry that down.

[crashdive123]

Honestly - For Florida/South Georgia - keeping it at 50lbs wouldn't be too difficult. Water is fairly plentiful. Small tent or hammock with bug net, dehydrated food, some basic tools, bug spray, etc. Now - in a place like JIC described, or Sourdough's cold environment - I would have voted differently.

[Justin Case]

Honestly - For Florida/South Georgia - keeping it at 50lbs wouldn't be too difficult. Water is fairly plentiful. Small tent or hammock with bug net, dehydrated food, some basic tools, bug spray, etc. Now - in a place like JIC described, or Sourdough's cold environment - I would have voted differently.

What, dont think you could survive on a quart of water a day in 120 degrees under a shelter reading a book ? It wouldn't be pleasant, but I think it can be done,,

[Rick]

I think my greatest concern would be fire building, medical and food. Shelter can be put together fairly easy and be relatively comfortable unless it was an ice storm situation. Field shelters that have frozen debris SUC! when heat is applied. I've had them drip mud before. Not good at all.

Keep fire going in rain would be problematic so plenty of starting gear on hand.

Water is available around here no matter the season and no matter the temps. You might have to melt snow or ice but you'll have water. You just want to purify it.

I don't think I'd have a problem with 50lbs. for 2 weeks. Since I know this is a "recreational survival" situation I'll just eat every 3 days or so.

[Pocomoonskyeyes3]

I believe that it is extremely possible for me. Like Rick I live quite a ways inland, with no Desert or really SERIOUS Mountains or inclement weather that is some of the "Backyards" for about half of the people that have replied to this thread.

I too, Would have more worry over urban Jungle than wilderness. But as I have survived that before as well, then yes... let's do it. For me your biggest challenge would be to find an area that I could roam for two weeks without accidentally bumping into another human being. My BOB stays ready for the most part, so I wouldn't need but about a half hour tops.That would be deciding what to add or drop from my pack.

Not sure if the worst time would be now, with the heat, or dead of Winter. But if you are trying to make it the most DEADLY weather, It would be now for me. With the heat it would be harder to stay hydrated properly. Winter would be the next worst time.... but water would be less of an issue with snow around. Staying fed in winter would be harder than now, but still it would be doable. Fat would be the hardest thing to come by nutritionally regardless of season. But you did say only 2 weeks, with time to prepare, and a max of a 50 #pound pack, with seasonally appropriate clothing. I am assuming that clothing worn is NOT included in pack weight total. I could even "Cheat" and add peanut butter, dried beans and rice and still have less than the 50# pack. Throw in a couple of Reference books, and first aid kit and we're off. Put me in some of the harsher climes, or unfamiliar parts of this Nation.... It's a different story.... ENTIRELY different story. But 200 mile Radius of where I currently live.... Most assuredly doable.

[crashdive123]

What, dont think you could survive on a quart of water a day in 120 degrees under a shelter reading a book ? It wouldn't be pleasant, but I think it can be done,,

Maybe, maybe not. I've got no experience camping in the desert. I do have experience in hot climates working, and know that a quart of water a day would not be enough to sustain me. Lying under a tarp for two weeks isn't in my plan, but then again - that's why I don't live in a desert.

[roar-k]

That's just the thing, everyone here is comfortable in the climate they are used to. Me? I would be dead in the desert or any type of arctic or subarctic climate.

I would have to depend on one of you all to get me out alive, and trust me when it comes to survival I would be hanging on your every word.

[klickitat]

I have no problem believing that I would survive in my back yard (PNW).

So what is the most extreme weather in your areas?

For me it is deceiving. Yes we have the high mountain peeks with extreme weather, but helicopters are not making it up there in that kind of weather.

Around here you have two types of extremes. The east side high prairie desserts in the August heat or the west side 34 degrees, pouring rain with a 20 mile an hour wind.

I am prepared for the west side as that is were I live. I have been in those west side conditions all the time during hunting seasons. The east side is a bit trickier, but still doable.

[Ken]

Just a few thoughts:

First, I gave some thought to the ocean, but didn't think it would fall under our common use of the term "wilderness," so the scenario wasn't meant to include being dropped 200 miles offshore.

As far as the helicopter drop-off is concerned, humor me and assume that you have been dropped off during a 10 minute lull in the weather.

One thing that surprises me is the fact that nobody has commented about the clothing that they would wear. Remember, the OP stated, "you can dress as you feel is appropriate." Many seem to forget that our first level of "shelter" is our clothing. How many of you have kayaked or canoed in January?

Another observation is that very few have commented on relocating to a more hospitable place. In many instances, that could involve less than 10 miles - perhaps even one mile - of movement.

Some things to consider about a winter environment in the mountains:

There will usually be firewood and shelter materials available once you have moved below the tree-line. Same is true for finding natural barriers from the wind.

Dried foods weigh little in comparison to their reconstituted state, and can be cooked readily using melted snow for water. Think of the "volcano stove."

Debris huts can be constructed OVER lightweight waterproof tarps, providing a wind/water barrier and insulation. Snow Forts aren't only for kids, either.

More comments to come..........

[klickitat]

10 minute lull and dropped off on Mt Rainier or Mt. Hood. I am a dead man no matter how much I have. Every year some one dies on those mountains because you can not move for weeks at a time. Even in their snow caves they die.

Below the tree line, I am fine but up on the mountain itself in the worst possible weather conditions, not a chance.

[Ken]

You may wanna' consider a move to the east coast. No volcanoes here......... :innocent:

[Ken]

Every year some one dies on those mountains because you can not move for weeks at a time. Even in their snow caves they die.

Check this article out. http://www.mountwashington.org/about/visitor/surviving.php

[klickitat]

I live 50 miles from St. Helens and watched her blow in 1980. I go up there every year to hunt for shed elk antler and to fish. Just 10 years after the eruption I was cutting cedar shake bolts with in a few miles of the crater. I took my wife and kids up there back in may and there are beavers all the way up the Toutle river again. Now that the beavers are back, it won't be long before it is completely back to normal.

As is most people would never know it to be much different from everything else around there.

[klickitat]

Check this article out. http://www.mountwashington.org/about/visitor/surviving.php

There is a reason you have to have a guide, file a plan and why they shut the mountain down. Rainier has a highway going up the side of it and at certain times of year you still do not go up it.

[Rick]

We were there about 10 years after it popped and it looked like the surface of the moon except for a few plants here and there in the valley. Naked ground does crazy things for your depth perception and distance. I could see "something" really small moving around and after a moment I realized it was a herd of elk on the other side of the valley. It took those animals to give me some perspective on the distance. I was awed.

[NCO]

Hey fellas. I've been away a while...

On topic. This time of year I'd probably gain some weight on this kind of scenario...

[Ken]

......I realized it was a herd of elk on the other side of the valley.

How much meat were you able to pack out? :innocent:

[Rick]

I pack rocks. It's true. Everywhere we go my wife has to have a rock from there. All are dated and their location labeled and then scattered around the yard for me to mow around. Have you ever paid an extra baggage fee for rocks?!

[Ken]

I pack rocks. It's true. Everywhere we go my wife has to have a rock from there. All are dated and their location labeled and then scattered around the yard for me to mow around. Have you ever paid an extra baggage fee for rocks?!

I could build a wall with the ones I have. As I type this, I'm also looking at bottles of sand from the beaches of Nantucket, M.V., the Caribbean, Europe.......

[NightShade]

Can you imagine the speed you would get sledding down Tuckerman's.Put Ken as lead rider, you can use him to cushion your blow when you crash.
Well well well.... It seems you have read my mind, my friend... Hahaha..... If he is crazy enough to ski it.. Youth immortallity or not, he must surely be crazy enough to take lead position!

[BENESSE]

I pack rocks. It's true. Everywhere we go my wife has to have a rock from there. All are dated and their location labeled and then scattered around the yard for me to mow around. Have you ever paid an extra baggage fee for rocks?!

OMG!!!
I thought I was the only one. The most I ever brought back was 20lbs from Santorini, Greece. I got rocks and stones going back 15 years and just recently I got a 4lb chunk from the Crazy Horse Monument. (SD) They were giving them away for a small donation.

Oh, and sand too, just like Ken.

[Rick]

If the earth's magnetic field ever shifts it will be because my wife found another iron rock and brought it home.

[Justin Case]

If the earth's magnetic field ever shifts it will be because my wife found another iron rock and brought it home.

wouldn't you feel dumb if they turned out to be Meteorites ,, LOL

[Sarge47]

wouldn't you feel dumb if they turned out to be Meteorites ,, LOLNot as dumb as they would feel if they found high-grade ore in one of them & were killing themselves trying to remember where they found it so they could go back & file a claim! :cool2:

[Batch]

The Scenario

1. In 2 hours, you will be picked up at your home and transported by helicopter to the most isolated and challenging wilderness terrain, within 200 miles of your home, under the worst weather conditions common for that area.

Hot and humid with thunderstorms.


2. You will be informed in advance of the location you will be dropped off at, and will have 2 hours to assemble a pack with whatever you choose to carry, weighing no more than 50 lbs., and you can dress as you feel is appropriate.

My normal pack covers clothing through out the year in South Florida. It is rare that we go below 35 degrees.


3. In this scenario, you will not suffer a life threatening accident (such as a broken back) or a sudden illness (such as a heart attack, stroke, etc.).

So worst case scenario means I suffer no physical damage from a hurricane. I am including that I did not get killed by lightning. LOL


4. You will have no other human contact for 2 weeks.

I don't know how that will affect me or not. I have never gone two weeks without human contact. Though I am not an overly social person.


5. Once you are dropped off, you can choose to stay in place or to move by foot to another location, but either way, you must remain alone in the wilderness for 2 weeks.

Whether I move or not depends on where I get dropped off. I have camped in every environment you could put me in inside that range. I'll be fine.


6. If, at the end of the 2 weeks, you are still alive, you have an EPIRB that you can activate in order to be picked up by helicopter within the hour.

The Question

ARE YOU CONFIDENT THAT YOU HAVE SUFFICIENT KNOWLEDGE AND EXPERIENCE TO SURVIVE?

[crashdive123]

4. You will have no other human contact for 2 weeks.


Sometimes after three months underwater on a submarine I would have sworn that I had had no human contact for quite some time.:innocent:

[BENESSE]

No human contact will be a welcomed change.
Bring it on!

[rwc1969]

Given the scenario I'm cofident I could live quite comfortably for a month anywhere within 200 miles of here. Worst case scenario I can think of would be dropped in the UP, in a swamp with below freezing temps and 6+ feet of snow. I'm not familiar with that area and that's why it would be the worst. But, if I could carry 50 lbs. of stuff I'd live quite well. I think I'd enjoy it for the first week or two and then get lonely or bored.

[crashdive123]

Given the scenario I'm cofident I could live quite comfortably for a month anywhere within 200 miles of here. Worst case scenario I can think of would be dropped in the UP, in a swamp with below freezing temps and 6+ feet of snow. I'm not familiar with that area and that's why it would be the worst. But, if I could carry 50 lbs. of stuff I'd live quite well. I think I'd enjoy it for the first week or two and then get lonely or bored.

I think your knowledge of wild edibles would serve you well. Sure, I understand that six feet of snow migh cause a few problems, but.....

[rwc1969]

If the scenario were any different I'da prolly said NO.

The only wild edibles I'd be eating is wild game, and lots of it. 50 lbs. is a whole lotta rounds of .22 shells. Under 6' of snow I might be able to eat the tops off of whatever trees the porkys hadn't beat me too, or make tea, but that stuff tastes horrible. I tried eatin trees they don't taste good. No wonder Indians were red, they were probably full of tannins.??<---<< That's not an ethnic slur, it's a serious question.

I suppose I could burrow down and find some cattail roots or somethin?? LOL!

I was reading a lil bit of this thread, my how it's grown, and it does seem that 200 miles is too close to question. Add in the 50 lbs. of gear and it's a no-brainer. If I were dropped in the desert or FLorida swamp, etc., I'd be in a pickle for sure. You'd find me dried up or pruned up and covered in God knows what kinda critter bites and such.

Some places in the UP are all jack pine and swamp and that for me would be tricky, I don't like going in swamps I'm unfamiliar with and the snow and ice would only complicate things further unless the swamp was froze solid. But, there's still game to be shot and a couple weeks isn't really that long.

I'm actually seriosly considering some desert or far north survival/ wilderness living training. If I had the cash anyhoo. I think it would be intersting to see just how well I fair when I don't know the plants, animals, terrain, etc.

[randyt]

a swamp in northern mich during a blizzard and cold conditions doesn't sound like to bad a place to be. the evergreens keep the wind down and there is usually enough blow down for fire wood and those evergreens make a nice browse bed. usually there is a few big blow downs here and there with their root mass tipped up that is the start of a pretty good shelter. on the plus side the pats and rabbits are hunkering down in the swamp to. a guy may get lucky and there may be some deer wintering over nearby. of course a guy will need to keep a eye out for any potential future blowdowns.

[tipacanoe]

I'm pretty sure, April till November, I could make it, November would be a question, December through March, I might make it a week but I don't believe I would make it two, unless I really learned well the first week. That would be here in Maine.

[trax]

No human contact will be a welcomed change.
Bring it on!

I think that way most every day, how old do you have to get to be considered a curmudgeon?

[Rick]

Ask Sarge.

[letslearntogether47]

"4. You will have no other human contact for 2 weeks."

I think this would be a hard thing to accomplish.
As 200 mile circumference here in MA. is going to bring you into contact with somebody during a 2 week survival trip.Even if dropped off on Mt. Washington.

[finallyME]

For me you would have to stick me on top of the highest peak in the Uintas, in winter with 100 mile per hour winds. If I survive the helicopter crash trying to get me there, then I would just have to descend fast and not die doing that. So, as long as I can get to the tree line, I am golden. Until then, give me 30-70. My pack would be full of insulating things and food. I would probably be wearing 50 lbs of clothes.

Okay a little calculating.......1.5 lbs of food a day for 28 days comes out to 42 lbs. I'd have to cut my food down a little and hope to find food in the 4 week span.

[finallyME]

"4. You will have no other human contact for 2 weeks."

I think this would be a hard thing to accomplish.
As 200 mile circumference here in MA. is going to bring you into contact with somebody during a 2 week survival trip.Even if dropped off on Mt. Washington.

Are you kidding? That is easy. In MA there are no humans anyway.

[BIG TONE]

I would say yes. The most rugged terrain in Northeast NE is the loess hills along the Mighty Missiouri. Worst weather would be 5ft of snow and 20 below or 115 heat index.
But my shelter building skills are adequate, plenty of water, plenty of small game. My gear is always on stand by.
No human contact would be tough and staying dry and warm (keeping a fire going). I do think i have the skills to do it. I also live in one of the most survivable areas in the US.
BTW nice topic it really gets you thinking.

[Rick]

Son, son. Where have you been? Nice to see you back!

[BIG TONE]

Been super busy. Raising 4 kids got elected Fire Chief and my job keep me hopping. Glad to be back though!:)

[crashdive123]

Good to see you back.

[BIG TONE]

Thanks Crash

[Rick]

Congrats on the Fire Chief, gig. Four kids?! You do know what causes that, right?

[letslearntogether47]

Are you kidding? That is easy. In MA there are no humans anyway.

One should never underestimate the"humans"among the sheeple.

[NightShade]

One should never underestimate the"humans"among the sheeple.

Well put.... While the sheeple population is high... Plenty of humans if u know where to look.

[abe]

I would love to see this on TV as the REAL survivor. Shouldn't be to big of a problem for me until the windchill bites me. If being helicoptered out I wish I could go north or south, East or west would be in the flatlands. Don't want that.

[BIG TONE]

Congrats on the Fire Chief, gig. Four kids?! You do know what causes that, right?

Thanks, and yes i am now fixed.LOL

[finallyME]

Thanks, and yes i am now fixed.LOL

Naw, you just need a TV in your bedroom. We finally got one after 5 kids. :innocent:

[finallyME]

Well put.... While the sheeple population is high... Plenty of humans if u know where to look.

Yeah, if you know where to look. But, you have to look really, really, really hard.

[FVR]

I'm ready to leave right now. Let's see, no wife, kids, work, dumbass redneck fellow employees...I'm there.

2 hours to get ready, hell that leaves me an hour and 45 min. to take a nap.

[jgcoastie]

1. Ok, that puts me either in the Kodiak Archipelago, the Kenai Peninsula, or the Alaska Peninsula. Most likely on the top of a mountain somewhere... Ok, doable considering common conditions for this time of year. (Assuming it will be this time of year, you did say in 2 hours...)

2. 2 hours to pack for a known location. Got it.
Here's my list (packed in a Camelback backpack w/ bladder):
- Browning X-Bolt Varmint Stalker Rifle (.308 Win)
- Browning Buckmark Camper Pistol (.22 LR)
- 30rds of .308 handloads
- 200rds of .22 LR
- 1 pint of transmission fluid (lubrication for guns as well as a good fire accelerator)
- Magnesium fire starter
- Set of skinning knives
- Hatchet
- Spool of 15lb test mono fishing line (snares)
- 50' of 1/2" DBN line
- 150' of para cord
- A 2qt steel pot
- Basic first aid kit for cuts and such
- Wool blanket
- Lightweight tarp
- Extra wool socks
- Gatorade mix (the dry stuff in a can)
- 12 or so protein bars
- Handheld GPS
- Leatherman

Clothing
- Under armor cold gear (base layer)
- Carhartt work pants (medium layer)
- Carhartt longsleeve work shirt (medium layer)
- Carhartt insulated waterproof 2-piece (outer shell)
- Wool socks
- Kamik felt-lined rubber boots
- Browning duckbill canvas hat (old trusty)
- Waterproof gloves
- Instructor/last chance belt (heavy duty)


Given the possible locations and the items listed above, I feel supremely confident that I would be able to survive for the given two weeks. First step is to safely get down the mountain. Easy enough if you go slow and think about what you're doing before you do it.

Ask away and please do try to poke holes in this. Make me think and re-think. I typically carry all/most of these items when I make trips out to Saltry Cove, Afognak, Raspberry Island, etc... So, ask away.

[Winter]

Looks like a pretty good list coastie.

I think the OP meant worst weather any time of yr.

[jgcoastie]

Well, that'll put a damper on things, especially if it's on the AK Peninsula... But still doable and I doubt I'd change anything on my list.

The upside is that the worst weather up here = snow. Snow = easier to locate small game trails to set snares. It'll also be easier to locate and track larger game. Also helps with food storage.

[wareagle69]

so in the worst weather that alska has to offer you would either try to walk out or run a trap line? i think the op was intending this to be a worst weather scenario for the entire two weeks. just poking.

[Winter]

Well, I looked at the worst possible location to be dropped off.

I could be put on Eddystone rock, on the top, in the winter.
http://www.akquest.com/files/images/Eddystone_Rock_Fly_By.jpg

Even if I made it down, it would be bad.

[crashdive123]

It's got a nice beach.

[Winter]

Nice till it's blowing 100mph at high tide and it's 20f.

[jgcoastie]

so in the worst weather that alska has to offer you would either try to walk out or run a trap line? i think the op was intending this to be a worst weather scenario for the entire two weeks. just poking.
Understood. I'll make two points here.

1. It is not wise to move around in really really crappy weather. Oftentimes the best solution is to hunker down and ride it out.

(assuming I know for a fact that the next two weeks will be horrible weather)
2. It is also not wise to knowingly submit yourself to the worst that Mother Nature has to offer. If the conditions truly are terrible and I know they will not get any better; I'm getting the heck off the mountain. Why? Well for one, it's colder at higher elevations. It is also windier (generally speaking). So what to do? Get down safely.

I realize the intent of the OP, but it is also unreasonable to believe that the next 14 days will consist of nothing but "the absolute worst weather". Why? Because I've been here for a couple of years and I've never seen the weather stay the same for 5 days, let alone 14.

It is, in fact, next to impossible for the weather to stay the same for two weeks solid around these parts given the weather systems and the routes they take. Yes, the weather gets rough, but it generally clears up (to some degree or another) in a couple of days.

All of that being said. I was "stranded" on Sitkinak Island for a week once. We flew out on a deer hunt via helicopter and weather moved in preventing our return. No big deal. The weather was nasty, but we still moved around basically freely.

I will add one thing to my list of clothing though: Sunglasses w/ retaining strap. As I recall, they came in handy on that trip.

***EDIT***
Thanks for bringing that up BTW... I've been reading here for a couple of days and I can see that you have a lot more "boots on the ground" time than I. Thanks for your criticism, it is indeed welcome IMHO.

[wareagle69]

intelligently written, you alaskans have some smarts about ya
now about being wise, ha when has man ever been wise, for me its about extremes, a week in death valley or snowshoeing in snowstorms.
ken has made me think tho, if we get a bad weather front this winter i think i will head out for a couple of days and do some research, last winter only brought one day of good snow the rest was in small amounts,opps gotta go just remebered the fly masks are on the kids and its dark
but as i said you answered well

[Winter]

You have a good head on your shoulders Coastie.

You remain young and invincible. You'll get over that in 20 yrs. :)

[jgcoastie]

You have a good head on your shoulders Coastie.

You remain young and invincible. You'll get over that in 20 yrs. :)

What makes you think I'm planning on ever getting over it? :tongue_smilie: As long as my mind can keep tricking my body that I'm young and invincible; I shall be. :)

[Winter]

hahaha, your knees talk more loudly than your mind at times.

[jgcoastie]

hahaha, your knees talk more loudly than your mind at times.

I hear ya. Honestly I'm looking at another knee replacement this spring. I my left knee is all synthetic and that'll probably be the fate of my right knee as well.