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Erratus Animus
08-07-2010, 11:34 PM
I bought a piece of mule fat off the internet for my hand drill and it worked very well till I misplaced it and broke it. So now I am wondering if anyone know of some good woods for a hand drill in the deep south.

crashdive123
08-08-2010, 06:24 AM
YCC is probably going to have the best info for you. Yucca stalks work well. I played around with Crape Myrtle and had some success. Some other good ones ar Mullein and Cattail stalks.

I am a friction fire neophyte, and just learning. YCC is our resident "go to" guy. Batch has had some recent successes too.

your_comforting_company
08-08-2010, 10:18 AM
Black willow is also good stuff, but it's hard to find a long straight piece. For learning purposes, I'd have to recommend yucca as it is widespread around here. My regular use hand drill with the cheater-thumb-strap is mullein. Just started another fire with it yesterday as a demonstration for some of my wifes-relatives kids.

I find cattail to be a little too brittle and it takes a bit of finesse not to crush it.. I have yet to master that one.
I've used Nandina domestica with the bow-drill and it works very well, but I haven't tried a piece as a hand drill yet. It doesn't like to grow very straight.

I highly recommend the thumb strap on your hand drill. It can be a shoestring or natural cordage. Mine is a piece of deer leather I made and it takes away all the "cooling time" that you get when you have to move your hands back up the spindle. Takes firemaking time from 5 minutes to about 3.

Mule-fat and yucca have similar properties and I think you'll find it to be one of the easiest to find and use here in the deep south. I'm sure I posted some pics somewhere on here of yucca plants with stalks, so if you do a search, you should find a few threads. yucca is good for many other things too ;)
Any that you experiment with, post up the results for us. I keep my eyes open for woods with the qualities, and will try just about anything I can get my hands on that "fits".
Basswood and cotton wood are said to be good materials, but I have yet to try them, and horseweed is a bit fragile and will take some finesse also. Basically, what I'm saying, is there is no full "list of materials" but there IS a list of qualities to look for in materials, and short of having a list, I'll try any material that has those qualities.
Good luck in your quest for fire. Be resolute in your determination and you'll have your own personal list very soon!

"There is no try. There is only do, or do not." -Yoda

your_comforting_company
08-08-2010, 10:19 AM
A side note... any "materials" you come across that are an invasive species should be tried and if they won't spin an ember, at least you'll have wood for the fire!

Erratus Animus
08-08-2010, 10:28 AM
I use a revolving motion I saw some years back that works very well. i will see if I can find the video. I have used a thumb strap and have the pics starting a fire with it for my daughters history project. That was awesome but the judges were tards and after her presentation of the history of fire making methods; hand drill, bow drill, flint steel, and fire piston- all hand made and gather by she and I - the judges said geez you should have done the history of the lighter. :jango: I am still mad

Batch
08-08-2010, 11:12 AM
I use all coastal plain willow. It is every where down here and should be the same in Louisiana.

It works very well. Just find a good dead piece still attached to the tree.

http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=SACA5

Erratus Animus
08-08-2010, 01:45 PM
The method I use is the floating method. The wild wood link will cover it.

http://www.wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/fire/handdrill/floating/floating.html

kyratshooter
08-08-2010, 02:42 PM
+1 on YCC comments.

I also use a stalk from a weed referred to as "Horseweed" around here. I grows thickly along the railroad tracks here. I find it even better than yucca.

It is not strong and must be used as a spindle insert.

One of my students actually got a coal using a horseweed insert on a firebow spindle in less than 20 seconds and had a flame in less than 30 seconds. It was almost like watching a magic show. One of those things you would not believe if you had not seen.

One wood I have found that you can count on almost nation wide is plain old sugar maple. It is not an instant fire but dry sugar maple is very reliable.

Erratus Animus
08-08-2010, 03:31 PM
I am looking for woods native to the deep south. The last of the horse tail that I am aware of we transplanted to my dads lilly pond. the loggers scraped the rest and burn the lot.

Think i will cut some willow and see what will happen. there is also another plant that is abundant that my work. I will take a pic of it and see if someone knows what its called. It has a long straight stems and a small pithy center.

your_comforting_company
08-23-2010, 08:56 AM
I did some hand-drilling this weekend. Should have taken pictures of the blisters...

A thumb strap, fashioned out of any type of cordage you can find will go a LONG way in procuring fire with the hand drill method. A shoestring, paracord, natural cordage, leather straps... just about anything will work and makes hand drilling 10x more efficient, IMO.

yucca worked, and I almost got cotton rose to work, but by then my hands were hamburger meat and very near bleeding.. Will try more when my wounds heal.

Erratus Animus
08-23-2010, 09:28 AM
I collected several doz yucca stalks yesterday and will be making fire with them today. Going to teach my future son in law how to do it as well. I also did some homework and found out what horse weed looks like and what do you know, its everywhere here. I cut it green. There is another plant that fit the thumbnail indention test that I collected too but I dont know what its called. I will get you a pic.

Erratus Animus
08-23-2010, 10:10 AM
09:07 I was successful with handrill with yucca that I went and harvested myself, using yucca hearth and no thumb loops- 6 passes and I had an ember!!!!!

I had always purchase the mule fat before but that is over with ! When my daughter comes by today I will get her to take pics! I need to rest till then!

Today Is a good DAY!!!!!!

your_comforting_company
08-23-2010, 10:55 AM
Congratulations! Feels great doesn't it! I also know how strong an urge you have to teach others and that is really refreshing. Pay it forward!

gives a whole different appreciation for fire. at least to me it does.

Erratus Animus
08-23-2010, 11:02 AM
Andy, My future son in law, has taken a keen interest in primitive living skills and survival skills. At first I thought he was sucking up but now I have seen him practicing and studying up on his own. I think this will really boost his confidence as a young man as well as strengthen the bond between us.

If successful it will be his first friction fire by any means. Now that is just cool!!

your_comforting_company
08-23-2010, 11:22 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8u-xKKBPK4&feature=related

found this one looking for the figure 8 technique. since he was a country boy, thought I'd share it. found any vids of the figure 8?...
I'm gonna go out there and get blisters on my blisters.. you are givin me the fever!

edit: found it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ns8UMJ5WM3g&feature=related

letslearntogether47
08-23-2010, 12:35 PM
09:07 I was successful with handrill with yucca that I went and harvested myself, using yucca hearth and no thumb loops- 6 passes and I had an ember!!!!!

I had always purchase the mule fat before but that is over with ! When my daughter comes by today I will get her to take pics! I need to rest till then!

Today Is a good DAY!!!!!!

Awesome!

I hope to give this a shot sometime soon.
Looking forward to a few pictures.

Erratus Animus
08-23-2010, 03:45 PM
Being excited and show no restraint will make you dumb at times. Cody Lundun said it best" Be a dumba@# and you will receive dumba@# consequences"
With that said in my total excitment of the hand drill I did it a few more times when I knew my hands were starting to get sore on the 4 time. Each time I got a coal and was spured on to show someone else till finally Andy came by and I had to show him. I placed duc-tape on my hands to help with the blisters and went for it one more time.

I got that coal and tried my best to look like it did not hurt but it does and that was stupid of me to do. I just hope I impressed Andy enough to do a few chores for me while I recover :)

your_comforting_company
08-23-2010, 05:47 PM
Must be your day today. I can't get an ember with the hand drill today for squat!

Alls I got today was a mudpuddle of sweat.. stick got too slick and I had to take a break.
Trying different materials and combinations today and trying to learn the "floating" technique. My arms are about to fall off and my blisters have blisters... I'll try again tomorrow!

your_comforting_company
08-29-2010, 09:39 AM
picture of the blister with a blister...
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/your_comforting_company/Primitive%20Skills/firemaking/DSCN4923.jpg
and dagnabit... yucca spindle and tulip poplar was just the right combo...
Still experimenting with other materials.. gave myself a new blister last nite. No pain, no gain!

So how are your experiments going EA?

your_comforting_company
08-30-2010, 04:08 PM
I believe this to be wild lettuce (Lactuca canadensis) because of the pinkish/orangish tint on the edges of the petals. These are some of the weeds I mow the grass around, and I'm glad now that I saved them. A food source (leaves), a nice spark-catcher for modern sparkers or extender for a primitive ember (seed pappus), AND a hand spindle to start a fire (stem). I watched these through their entire life cycle and they grew to be about 8 feet tall.
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/your_comforting_company/plants/DSCN3944.jpg
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/your_comforting_company/Primitive%20Skills/firemaking/DSCN4919.jpg

kit with ember
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/your_comforting_company/Primitive%20Skills/firemaking/DSCN4929.jpg
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/your_comforting_company/Primitive%20Skills/firemaking/DSCN4931.jpg
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/your_comforting_company/Primitive%20Skills/firemaking/DSCN4935.jpg

hearth was a piece of black willow, just because it was handy. It seems to have just the right amount of silica in it for most friction fire purposes. In my limited experience at least, it is valuable as a hearthboard and works well with many materials.
The lettuce also must have plenty of silica in it as it warmed and ground quickly and easily. this is the first time I've ever tried wild lettuce for a hand drill, but it passed the tests, it was handy, and I tried it.
Most of the ones I've seen on roadsides are past seed and are dying now. Anytime in the next few weeks will be an ideal time to spot tall straight dark-brown stalks for use.
more info on wild lettuce is here:
http://www.kswildflower.org/flower_details.php?flowerID=507


Native Americans would steep the roots and bark and take the tea for back and kidney pains; took a tea to induce sleep; applied a poultice of pulverized roots to stop bleeding cuts; and used the milky latex to treat poison ivy sores. The leaves were cooked and eaten as greens.

One to add to the list

your_comforting_company
09-04-2010, 12:02 PM
Used Lactuca canadensis successfully for the second time last night. Takes about 5 minutes to get a tiny wisp of grey smoke. I like to take my time pre-heating because it takes a good bit of spin and pressure to kick the ember out, and you don't want to be worn out when it comes time to give it hell.
Time to play with more materials. Dog fennel is on my list to try, along with evening primrose. Anyone have any tales of success with fennel? Florida beggarticks (I forget the latin) is also supposed to be a good one, but I haven't come across a suitable stalk yet, though I've spotted some that should be ready in a few more weeks. I'm also wondering about wooly croton.. seems woody enough to me, though the green stalks are a little on the soft side.
Still trying to figure out the finesse to use cattail successfully. Gotta get some more stalks.. I keep tearing them up!

What have you guys found that works well? Any experience, good or bad, with the above materials?

canid
09-04-2010, 12:24 PM
keep in mind that too much of the sap from some lettuces can kill you. such specie contain significant amounts of toxins such as lactucin.

as i recall, L. virosa [common wild lettuce] and L. serriola [prickly lettuce] contain significant quantities, at L. virosa at least has been associated with fatal poisonings.

they have several medicinal applications, and are not extremely dangerous, but care must be taken.

your_comforting_company
09-04-2010, 01:36 PM
Thanks canid. I'll do some more research on that. Wonder why my Peterson guide lists it as edible? Boil in at least one change of water and they are supposed to be good to go?
I'm finding more and more that the peterson guides seem inferior. Not necessarily misinformation, but more like incomplete.. They should point out that the raw leaves are toxic, specifically, in large quantities. I've found a few plants in there listed as edibles that other books point out to have toxic properties.
Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

your_comforting_company
09-04-2010, 09:25 PM
horseweed works wonderfully. Made my first fire with it about 8:00 tonight. I did a little video. My camera doesn't do audio. Video is 5 minutes, all in one take. Most of it is filling up the notch and the ember kicks out around 2:30. I take it all the way to flame. I apologize for the poor quality. If you have 5 minutes to spare, check it out.
http://s248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/your_comforting_company/Primitive%20Skills/firemaking/?action=view&current=DSCN4949.mp4

Also a few pictures of the materials.
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/your_comforting_company/Primitive%20Skills/firemaking/DSCN4954.jpg
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/your_comforting_company/Primitive%20Skills/firemaking/DSCN4950.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conyza_canadensis

Conyza canadensis is a common weed found along roadsides, fences, fields, and waste areas.
Moderate pressure and spin. It grinds easily and heats quickly. I'd have to rank it as one of the easiest I've tried. I didn't even get tired using this one.:)

Also, I'm working on the "figure 8" motion for constant spin without going all the way to the bottom and having to stop. Getting better at it, but still need practice. It's definately a method worth learning. Also called "floating".

Swamprat1958
09-05-2010, 05:12 PM
I hate to show my ignorance, but what is mule fat?

Rick
09-05-2010, 05:18 PM
It's a shrub.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baccharis_salicifolia

Swamprat1958
09-05-2010, 05:37 PM
If someone had said Baccharis I would have known it immediately. It is an invasive shrub and is taking over Louisiana.

your_comforting_company
09-05-2010, 11:52 PM
That means it's time to start practicing your firemaking skills with it ;)

Erratus Animus
09-06-2010, 12:00 AM
Swamprart please show me where we can get some because that stuff is the bomb !

YCC I am sry I have not responded sooner but had some bad news about my brother and I have been spending as much time with him as I can.

I harvested a lot more Yucca and have several sets made up. I am very successful with it and have a coal kick out around 45-60 seconds on avg. I have varied my technique and found what is comfortable for me and allows me to get enough pressure on the spindle.

After the first coal the time before i can kick another one out is much much longer as I tire so fast. I still preform the handrill every other day working on building up tolerance and endurance.

I harvested some horseweed that I found and am waiting for it to dry before giving it a go. All the muslin plants I located do not have stalks right now so I dont have any of it yet.

There is a plant that I think will do a great job. I dont know the name of it and neither does anyone else around here. I will get you a pick of it.

I am just now learning about local weeds that are useful so it may very well be something common to everyone else.

Yucca hearth boards are all I have been using lately but I will try some willow soon.

your_comforting_company
09-06-2010, 12:20 AM
Sorry to hear about your brother EA. You don't owe me any apology whatsoever. Take care of family first! We can play with our sticks when everybody is okay.

I do find that it is a test of endurance. It takes a bit of conditioning as you dont' use those muscles regularly. I try to spin one at least once a day, no matter how tired I am from work.

Also of note, I'm liking smaller diameter spindles for the hand drill.

Good to hear from you. Hope everything works out with your brother.

Erratus Animus
09-06-2010, 12:31 AM
unfortunately no it wont work out as there is nothing short of the Divine that can help now.

I have never had any fat spindles lol most are all 1/2 -3/4

I have a set i used of yucca in my pack now and prefer it over the bowdrill for quickness of setup and a coal but having the bearing block and bow premade and in my pack makes it super simple. I am still a fan of charcloth and flint /steel and it is my preferred, but nothing gets you cool points from the other guys at the fire station like a hand drill does!

your_comforting_company
09-07-2010, 02:16 PM
Rick mentioned in another thread (here (http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?t=11706)), American basswood as a good one for friction fire. I was doing a little reading on it and I'll be looking to find some.

some good info and links on american basswood, Tilia americana
http://forestry.about.com/od/hardwoods/tp/American_Basswood.htm

Doesn't look like it grows in my area.. Mostly in the northeastern quadrant of the US.

but these do. Looks like they are varieties of the same thing, perhaps adapted to the warmer climate?
http://www.duke.edu/~cwcook/trees/tiamca.html

http://www.duke.edu/~cwcook/trees/tiamhe.html

Anyhow, Rick said we should look into it more, so I did and I'll be working on memorizing the characteristics. Looks like it would be a very useful plant to know.

letslearntogether47
09-07-2010, 03:04 PM
Sorry to hear about your brother,EA.
Thanks for the link,YCC.
I'll have to keep an eye out on my weekly nature walks.
I have one of these trees growing in my yard.It's a big tree,but seems to have light wood.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalpa

your_comforting_company
09-07-2010, 03:35 PM
I've never considered catalpa for friction fire. If I run across a dead limb I'll have to try it.
Around here, the pods will often (used to) get infested with worms, which is handy since they grow near the creeks.. free fishbait!
With all the crop dusting planes around now, the worms seem to be increasingly rare. I couldnt find any catalpa worms this year.

crashdive123
09-07-2010, 03:36 PM
Sorry to hear about your brother EA.

letslearntogether47
09-07-2010, 03:59 PM
I've never considered catalpa for friction fire. If I run across a dead limb I'll have to try it.
Around here, the pods will often (used to) get infested with worms, which is handy since they grow near the creeks.. free fishbait!
With all the crop dusting planes around now, the worms seem to be increasingly rare. I couldnt find any catalpa worms this year.


I don't think I've ever seen catalpa worms.Maybe it has something to do with the climate here.Or just haven't looked inside the pods enough to find one.
The tree in my yard has like a 4 ft. diameter trunk.I watched a squirrel making a nest the other day with the leaves.
I know that when the up shoots are dried out they get very light,but stay strong.

your_comforting_company
09-07-2010, 11:03 PM
a little off topic, but here's more about the worm.
http://www.ehow.com/how_2079926_grow-harvest-catalpa-worms-from.html

we use a lot of lures that are that color on spinners and whatnot.
http://forestry.about.com/od/alternativeforest/ss/catalpa_7.htm

Ever since I was a kid I regarded those trees highly. I'm interested in your results with it.

Swamprat1958
09-08-2010, 05:46 PM
Swamprart please show me where we can get some because that stuff is the bomb !

YCC I am sry I have not responded sooner but had some bad news about my brother and I have been spending as much time with him as I can.

EA I am sorry to hear that about your brother.

As for finding baccharis it won't be a problem. It is all over the delta and I would be surprised if it isn't in the piney woods near where you live. Give me a call and we will go cut enough for you to go crazy with!

Erratus Animus
09-08-2010, 06:39 PM
EA I am sorry to hear that about your brother.

As for finding baccharis it won't be a problem. It is all over the delta and I would be surprised if it isn't in the piney woods near where you live. Give me a call and we will go cut enough for you to go crazy with!

Ty bro :blushing: I bet I see it a lot but dont know what it is. There is a plant and I have not taken a pic yet that I think would do well and it seems to be everywhere. Once my brother is home from the hospital we can go get some.

canid
09-10-2010, 08:36 AM
I hate to show my ignorance, but what is mule fat?

Mule fat grows in every drainage in my area. it roots shallowly in stony washes, washes out easily and grows back wherever the plants come to rest.

It is excellend for fire spindles, and while quite light and brittle, makes ready arrow shafts.

canid
09-10-2010, 08:45 AM
Thanks canid. I'll do some more research on that. Wonder why my Peterson guide lists it as edible? Boil in at least one change of water and they are supposed to be good to go?
I'm finding more and more that the peterson guides seem inferior. Not necessarily misinformation, but more like incomplete.. They should point out that the raw leaves are toxic, specifically, in large quantities. I've found a few plants in there listed as edibles that other books point out to have toxic properties.
Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

you will find that is true of almost every 'pocket sized' field guide.

as for edibility of lettuces: it's entirely relative. probably all Lactuca species contain some toxins [including cultivated lettuce], but some have much smaller quantities than others. it only moderates how much is safe to eat.

i don't know the solubility of the various lactularium compounds, but found and article (http://www.springerlink.com/content/g1253917g0n86510/) which discusses it in relation to those lactones found in chickory root - both solubility and stability.