Alarmists all??

[woodwose]

I am struck when reading the information submitted by people on other survival sites that some are gun toting camoflage fatigue wearing extremists/alarmists. Advocating that the government is going to fail miserably and we all are going to be left out in the cold with no recourse and/or resource. I have a hard time believing that the government is going to fail in all aspects and just take a meditterainian cruise. There would necessarily have to be some rebound that the government would have to make eventually if TEOTWAWKI (the end of the world as we know it) happens.

Given that the TEOTWAWKI scenario is at least part of the reason we all practice and are learning outdoor survival tactics, most of us would not necessarily be totally out of doors and could/would take control of existing building cover and whatever is left with attached resources, starting over if necessary.

Communities should and/or would be formed to insure the survival of such because a team works better than an individual, skills of the multitude would be needed to maintain a society. Individuals in that community that are toting guns for the purpose of keeping others out of the survival scenario would seem to be outcasts of that society.

[Rick]

I've asked a number of folks, that believe as you've outlined, what their greatest fear is. Most tell me we're destined for economic collapse or civil unrest. Okay, didn't the evil empire of Russia just have an economic upheaval I ask. Aren't they still in the process of rebuilding themselves? Aren't they still operating, still eating and working and raising families? And if you're old enough to remember the '60s then you're old enough to remember how bad the civil unrest was. cities ablaze, first responders being stot at. But we're still here. Mankind is a survivor. We wouldn't have made it this far if we weren't. Just my 4 cents.

See: http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?t=913

[Sarge47]

The problem is that the "Alarmists" make the same mistake other groups such as the "pro-bigfoot & U.F.O." groups do; they think it's all going to go the way they planned and then they get to rise up and be Heros! Don't think so...Why? Because of the following possibillities.:

1.) The Government hires some of the biggest brains in the world to sit around thinking up all the crap that can go down and have contingincies in place that most of us can only guess at.

2.) Any nation that could come in & overthrow our nation, including it's well trained & equipped Military isn't going to have much trouble mopping up a bunch of civilians armed with their "Blue-light special" fire-arms.

3.) If it's Civil unrest like we saw in Hurricane Katrina any civilian armed group will be dis-organized, or not as organized to the extent of the Government troops sent in to quell us Cilvilans.

4.) If it's caused by "Pandemic" such as a chemical, viral, or biological source, kiss your butt goodby "cause we ain't equipped to deal with it on our own.

If it happens, I'm quitting my job and going fishing!:cool:

[woodwose]

Rick,
You're right... I am not afraid nor worried about it. I am mystified why they are. I don't see the sense in getting all defensive when it comes to survival.. I know I will survive. It seems that the other segment of us is on the defensive and is resistant to change and is indicative that they won't adapt to helping others survive. Those others are probably going to be just what they need to survive for long. (No man is an island).

Leave it to the Sarge.... My sentiments exactly.. So the militia approach to survival is amiss and BOV's (but out vehicles) are fun to get around the woods in.. but unnecessary if they actually have to be used in a get out of town scenario. I thought so, so lets all dig a hole in our backyard and call it a bunker.. 'cause that will probably be the fastest place to get to in TEOTWAWKI scenario.:D

[dilligaf2u2]

I do not look for the end of the world coming. If it does, I will not be here to remember. I have lived threw one, end of the world as we know it. Computers changed the world as I knew it. Boy did I ever say I was old or what??

I am preparing for the short term (12 Months) survival by natural disaster. I use what I learn for survival, when I go camping. I prepare for when, for whatever reason, I will need to put my survival skills to use.

I will not waist my time and energy warring about what if! I plan for what might happen but not to the point I stop living and enjoying life.

The 600 lbs of pinto beans in the pantry were bought cheep and the 200 lbs of flour in the freezer were bought cheep. I buy in bulk. I am prepared if the electric goes out and if I need to heat the house. If disaster should hit and for a time law enforcement is non-existent. I can defend me and mine. I have ways to treat water. I have taken years to put my home in shape for the what if times!

Living with doom and gloom hanging over your head, is not living. Bugging out is not the end all answer to the problems that can arise. It is an option.

The more you learn the better off you will be to survive. Skills you may need can be learned. You have time. Getting your home in order for a long stay can be done slowly over years.

Buy an extra can of spam and rotate your food supply with newer bought foods. I choose one area and worked on that till it was ready. Food first. I next did water purification. I finished that and worked on solar chargers for batteries and rechargeable batteries. A converter for a 12 V battery to 110 V and a way to keep the battery charged. I will have my freezer working for month after the power dies, if need be.

Don

[Rick]

I took your post to mean just what you said. That you were mystified at their logic. I think a BOV might be in order for some natural disaster. I wouldn't use an APC but I my 4X4 is ready to roll. Folks just need to remember the scene that unfolded around Houston during Hurricane Katrina. Gridlock. My step brother and his family took four hours to drive 50 miles! So how much good will it really do? If the big one hits, so what? I doubt I'll be too worried if I'm dead. Besides, none of this is going to matter 100 years from now. At least not to me.

EDIT: Nice post, Don. We saved about the same time or I wouldn't have bothered. You said it well!

[woodwose]

With the older teaching the younger like in this article about a program such as that.. http://www.canada.com/globaltv/national/story.html?id=dca4ac49-f6f5-4496-b6c8-65244be91f25 I am not going to worry about it.:D

[woodwose]

I do not look for the end of the world coming. If it does, I will not be here to remember. I have lived threw one, end of the world as we know it. Computers changed the world as I knew it. Boy did I ever say I was old or what??

I am preparing for the short term (12 Months) survival by natural disaster. I use what I learn for survival, when I go camping. I prepare for when, for whatever reason, I will need to put my survival skills to use.

I will not waist my time and energy warring about what if! I plan for what might happen but not to the point I stop living and enjoying life.

The 600 lbs of pinto beans in the pantry were bought cheep and the 200 lbs of flour in the freezer were bought cheep. I buy in bulk. I am prepared if the electric goes out and if I need to heat the house. If disaster should hit and for a time law enforcement is non-existent. I can defend me and mine. I have ways to treat water. I have taken years to put my home in shape for the what if times!

Living with doom and gloom hanging over your head, is not living. Bugging out is not the end all answer to the problems that can arise. It is an option.

The more you learn the better off you will be to survive. Skills you may need can be learned. You have time. Getting your home in order for a long stay can be done slowly over years.

Buy an extra can of spam and rotate your food supply with newer bought foods. I choose one area and worked on that till it was ready. Food first. I next did water purification. I finished that and worked on solar chargers for batteries and rechargeable batteries. A converter for a 12 V battery to 110 V and a way to keep the battery charged. I will have my freezer working for month after the power dies, if need be.

Don

We live in a small bungalow here in Vancouver USA.. small and easy to maintain, all on one level. We have a huge back yard with a 20 x20 ft. garden plot with room to expand that. We grow some of our own food. I am working to transform as much as I can of this place into a stand alone residence.. possibly/probably off the grid eventually and more and more self sufficient. In the event of natural disaster all my neighbors will visit my place.

Next Spring and Summer I am planning on building a small insulated shed (big enough) to house a wood stove and generator (we are all electric at this point) and duct the heated air into the house, vent the smoke outside the shed.. and wire up the generator as standby to the existing service. I may decide to go solar generation for the electricity if I can afford it. We have the whole unobstructed slope of the roof on the house facing south to work with. Increased insulation.. probably blown in is easiest and more layers of it in the attic. I think we would probably be ready to go with that, save for a bomb shelter. That is tricky because we only have a 25 ft. water table. But an underground bunker wouldn't have to be that deep.. in the event of nuclear fallout.. and if we survived the initial blast.. we only need a minimum of 3 ft of dirt over it to block out the radiation. Of course, air filtration comes with that and need enough of those for the required period of time to stay in it.. food storage considerations etc. etc. All this is on my mind and is a work in progress.

[Ole WV Coot]

Glad I am not the only person not predicting gloom & doom. I am preparing for either a major or minor inconvenience. This could be caused by anything. I prepare for the worst and hope for the best and will be able to manage anything in the middle. Most of us have been in places where we thought we wouldn't make it but we pulled thru. I don't lose any sleep over things I can't control. I do what I can and leave it to a higher power than me. It took a few years to learn that.

[Rick]

You bet Ole Coot. You've all probably seen this but the circle of control are those things you have direct control over. Keeping your skills fine tuned, keeping your equipment in good shape, etc.

The circle of influence are those things you can't directly control but can influence. Teaching others about survival skills, telling your wife what you want for Christmas :rolleyes:, etc.

Outside the circle of control and the circle of influence are all the things we can't control and can't influence, which is the rest of the world. So don't sweat it.

[woodwose]

You bet Ole Coot. You've all probably seen this but the circle of control are those things you have direct control over. Keeping your skills fine tuned, keeping your equipment in good shape, etc.

The circle of influence are those things you can't directly control but can influence. Teaching others about survival skills, telling your wife what you want for Christmas :rolleyes:, etc.

Outside the circle of control and the circle of influence are all the things we can't control and can't influence, which is the rest of the world. So don't sweat it.

:D You can influence what you're wife gets you for Xmas??? Hmmm, tell me how you do that Rick... :D Oh wait... never mind..:D

[nell67]

not an alarmist,a realist

[Rick]

Ah, but a realist about what, dear lady? Being prepared? Armageddon? The end of the world? or just someone that collects reels? (tee hee).

[nell67]

Being prepared,for whatever the reason.

[Sarge47]

Most of us here are realists, according to Nell's definition. "Being Prepared, or as prepared as one can be is the best chance any of us will have when/if it all goes bad. My problem with the term: "realist" is that it's too "general". It doesn't really say anything. I've also listened to many people use that term to define their viewpoint, be it positive, negative, or whatever. What are you "Prepared to do? What are you prepared for? How have you prepared? Is it enough? Can we really tell what might happen in the future? It is my humble opinion that there is only so much we can prepare for. Up to a certain point we can control things, but situations have the potential to rise way above our capabilities. That's my viewpoint, but then, I'm a "realist" as well.:D

[Smok]

I had a friend that had over 40 guns with ammo he was always talking about the end . When I finally had enough ,I said look you can only carry so many guns and so much ammo and the gold you have you cannot eat ..What are you thinking you can't do it alone and the way your going you going to be a lone that is what I meant by my post about you need people and the best way is to be of value to them and that can be anything of value.. But he is a loner and has no value other then his guns and that is to bad but we all must walk our own road ..He said that I was good to have becouse of my plant and tarpping know how . That is value..

[Canadian-guerilla]

Okay, didn't the evil empire of Russia just have an economic upheaval I ask. Aren't they still in the process of rebuilding themselves? Aren't they still operating, still eating and working and raising families?

but i believe the difference between Russia and more recently Argentina
is that North America has a pampered society
Russia is adjusting to life after their economic upheaval easier
that we will because they didn't really fall that much - imo

here's a webpage that compares how the Soviet Union ( early 90's )
was better prepared for a collapse than the US is now ( soon to come ? )

Closing the Collapse Gap (http://www.energybulletin.net/23259.html)

add to this mix
all the guns available in north america
all the pampered video punks and fashion punkettes
and the always present threat of racism

if/when TSHTF, i believe it will be from financial collapse
how many days will our society tolerate
without food before resorting to violence

when the time comes
my first priority will be to get out of the city

i guess you should put me in the " doom & gloom " catagory
when TSHTF
it will be TEOTWAWKI

[Rick]

I agree with everything you said. The article is a good article but, in the end, it is one man's opinion. Give this some thought. We've already seen a global economic collapse. It was called the depression. It affected every "civilized" country in the world and we survived it. Was it TEOTWAWKI? You bet. People lost property (my grandfather included). People lost fortunes. People lost their lives (violence, disease, hunger). But it was not the end of civilization. I think that's the difference.

I suppose the important thing for this discussion is the definition of TEOTWAWKI. If something similar were to happen today there would be a LOT of unprepared people. There were during the depression as well. It would be a horrible and traumatic event for everyone. But, in the end, I think we would rise above it because mankind is a survivor. IMHO.

[Two Rivers]

Like most of you here I too am ready for anything That may come our way short of total destruction. After all, once the markets have all been looted of food and whatever the uneducated masses can get their grubby little hands on, it woulnt be long before they would start dropping like flies. Unable get their sustainance provided them by the infrastructure, ignorant of how to sustain their own lives it would give new meaning to the words " Eat Me ". After a while, the only ones left would be our own kind. Those armed with the knowledge and the skills to survive.


Great Thread

[wareagle69]

as i have always stated always be prepared, so what did i do? i bought a bub out place to live at permanetley, in the process of putting several bunkers on the property, go luck finding them i am ready no matter what the situation, i will survive although sometimes i wonder if i would want to survive and live in the changed world, but change why i like the death i like the destuction opps sorry cyborg flashback, my sense of adventure always wonders what it would be like but as always be careful of what you ask for..

[Canadian-guerilla]

But, in the end, I think we would rise above it because mankind is a survivor. IMHO.

you're right Rick, in the end, mankind will survive
but not before going thru a primitive de-evolution of society (?) imo
( mainly refering to " tv-watching / everything is fine " public )

instead of
what's on tv tonight ?
you see the price of gas today ?
Starbucks coffee is going up again


it's gonna be
FOOD - HEAT - SHELTER
with an ever-present mind concerning security

[Beo]

Don't need t.v
care to sh**s about gas
starbucks sucks
I got food & can hunt it
Can make heat & shelter

Yeah I'm good, but how many of you believe in Militia's in case the government comes for your things in an TEOTWAWKI scenario? I would never join a militia, more than likely build a cabin and take care of my own (family included) personally (I know its your right to join a militia, and to carry arms) if you wanna follow Johnny Butterbutt's fat beer belly around the woods while he lives out his fantasy of being a general cause he couldn't cut it in the military then I support your right to do so, as I support your right to keep and bear arms to protect you and yours. But I do not fear TEOTWAWKI, or a complete failure of electronics such as a "fire sale" from some disgruntled government suit or a geeky hacker who has nothing better to do than sit around his home and make up computer viruses, but then again I guess I'm a geek for always heading to the forests and living off the land.
Hmmmmm.....

[Rick]

On behalf of Johny of all my Butterbutt relatives everywhere, we resent that crack.

http://www.davealpert.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2006/06/buttcrack.jpg

The Butterbutt Motto; Maintaining a fine tradition of beer drinking, lard eatin', rabble rousing and fantasy role play.:rolleyes:(git-r-done).

[nell67]

Rick...at least they got your good side:eek::D

[Rick]

You know, you didn't have to butt in.:rolleyes: That comment was a bit cheeky.

[Sarge47]

You know, you didn't have to butt in.:rolleyes: That comment was a bit cheeky.
Didn't know you were going to make an "a*s" out of yourself on this thread. What's the "bottom line" here anyway? Are we going to get to the "bottom" of this? Is this the "end" of the "butt" "cracks"? :rolleyes:

[Rick]

Uncle! I surrender. I know when I'm beaten so I guess I'll step to the rear.

[RBB]

Given that the TEOTWAWKI scenario is at least part of the reason we all practice and are learning outdoor survival tactics,



Is this a requirement?

I just like being in the woods.

[Sarge47]

Is this a requirement?

I just like being in the woods.

No, it's not a requirement. Like you I just like being it the woods also, however there are others on this site who view things a bit different and we accomadate all of them except the Trolls & the Spammers; OK?:cool:

[woodwose]

Didn't know you were going to make an "a*s" out of yourself on this thread. What's the "bottom line" here anyway? Are we going to get to the "bottom" of this? Is this the "end" of the "butt" "cracks"? :rolleyes:

Bottom line is at the bench... obviously.... :rolleyes:

[Rick]

(Head slap@!) Oh@!