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KurtistheTurtle
06-14-2010, 04:06 AM
I'm interested in trapping and I really want to be able to legitimately develop my proficiency at it. Fish aside, I'm completely green to killing and cleaning animals. In fact, I wonder that if I find an animal snared in a trap I set if I can kill it or not.

I had this same problem with fish at first and I guess to compensate I was really bad to them, even the ones I wouldn't ever need to use. Once I started cleaning & eating them my respect for them went up. I used less and less harmful fishing methods and now I immediately release anything I know I'm not going to use and religiously obey requirements to keep a fish. Dunno, kind of grounded me. I don't accept disrespect to fish from myself and anybody around me period and I enjoy fishing and cleaning a lot more now, and I feel like I should cross this hurdle with wildlife. Except I'll have a head start; I already respect em

I read a thread kind of about this a couple pages back, and one of the things said there was "The only thing that matters is that you can look in the mirror and be happy with yourself." Completely agree.

So, when the moment comes, I'll have to face the music and I might have a bad guilty feeling in my stomach for a while for taking something's life. But I'll get over it. Now I know this is an intensely personal thing so I'm not asking for direct advice but I'm wondering if any of you have had similar feelings or situations before.

Rick
06-14-2010, 07:11 AM
You might try using the Search feature. You can probably find the answer to your question since there is probably a post already made on just about any question you can ask. If you don't find anything, ask away.

Here's a thread on that very subject:

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9654&highlight=feelings+killing

Pict
06-14-2010, 07:13 AM
I think if anyone gets to the point that they enjoy killing an animal that it's time to step back and take up golf. Killing for its own sake, killing for a trophy, killing more than you need are all things I have no respect for. I have no problem with a hunter mounting a trophy as long as the animal was packed out and consumed by someone. I have no problem with predator or pest control either where someone is trying to make a living off the land by herd or crop.

I look at it this way. We are humans, we eat meat and depend on agriculture for OUR survival. I also think it is rude to eat an animal before killing it. You are committing to killing an animal when you set a trap, not when you catch an animal. The only animals I have ever felt bad over were the ones I killed or wounded without any real reason. I also feel bad for animals that I don't hit well. It makes you feel bad enough that you don't continue the practice either hold your fire or hit them hard.

I have had the opportunity to see many people kill their first dinner. I often take live quail out to the bush when I am training first timers. Every once in a while someone will hesitantly attempt to cut a birds head off, as if they can do it gently. It's a total mental disconnect, lightly sawing away at the neck so as not to hurt the bird. I have learned to spot that kind of hesitation and now stop them before they get going. One powerful, quick stroke. Mac

your_comforting_company
06-14-2010, 08:36 AM
I agree 200% with what's been said.

When you set a trap you are committed. IF you catch something, you MUST have the competency to dispatch the animal (if the trap didn't do so already), skin and prepare it, or store it. In my way of thinking, The animals have more right to be out in the woods than any single one of us "civilized mammals" do.
The fact-of-the-matter is that we are animals too. What drives us to keep going? What gives us our will-to-live? I treat animals with more respect than I treat most people. The woodland critters don't get air conditioning or trips to the grocery store. Their lives are 100x harder than our luxurious ones, and for that alone, they deserve life.

All that being said, There is a great skinning tutorial already on here. http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9162

When I take an animals life, I say a prayer thanking the animal for all it provides, thanking the good lord for his blessing, and asking forgiveness for taking the animals life. I don't know about others, but it makes me feel better about taking the life of an animal. To answer the direct question: Yes. I've been hunting and fishing and such for a long time, and (with the exception of fish) I feel bad every time I kill an animal, from the lowliest squirrel or rabbit, to the great big trophy buck (that always gets away.. I'm not a trophy hunter, I hunt for food only)

Sarge47
06-14-2010, 08:45 AM
Well, I haven't killed any game in a long time; why? Because I'm not in need of food presently. Should that change I will go a-hunting! I don't trap because of the trapping laws here. I would use my .22 and try & make a clean kill. If I only wound them I'm quick to finish the job in order to eliminate the animal's suffering. :cool2:

preachtheWORD
06-14-2010, 01:47 PM
You said it better than I could, Mac. Wish I could rep you up, but I've gotta spread some love around first.

kyratshooter
06-14-2010, 02:18 PM
I have found that most of the time my snares produce live game, restrained and waiting for the kill. I have often released snared animals that I did not need.

Ethically, I abide by one primary rule. If you kill it you eat it.

That alone staves off any guilt or justification problems.

DOGMAN
06-14-2010, 02:21 PM
Killing is something that I struggle with, and honestly, the more you hunt, and trap the more your going to have to come to terms with it. A hard part of these pursuits...if you do them extensively is there will be times you don't do them well, and animals suffer- even though you tried your best. Conditions, timing, equipment malfunctions etc...will all eventually plague you and cause a hard death, in those situations many people than quit afterwards because they feel "traumatized". But, that is not the time to give up. You have to just accept the situation, treat the animal with great respect, and go on about your business and strive to better next time.

KurtistheTurtle
06-14-2010, 05:38 PM
When you set a trap you are committed.
This is how I should have been thinking the whole time. No backing out. I have a period of silence for a fish when I clean it, I'll do the same for animals.

red lake
06-14-2010, 07:29 PM
When you need to you will have to, but in order to get to the point where you are able to hunt/trap for sustenance you need to practice and learn how.

I had the same thoughts first time I shot a grouse. But overcame it quickly. My first snared rabbit wasn't dead when we checked the trap, but I didn't hesitate to dispatch it.

I never waste any meat I harvest weather it be grouse rabbit or fish. It is good karma.

kyratshooter
06-14-2010, 08:34 PM
I think this "problem" exists due to our removal from the source of our food in modern urban society.

Not too many years back every meal you ate ment someone got bloody during the preperation. I remember killing chickens by the dozen, slauthering rabbits in mass and killing 15 hogs in one morning. That was just for family use.

Sunday dinner ment something died.

No romance, no hesitation. We said our prayer to the Lord, the critter was simply SOL.

Ole WV Coot
06-14-2010, 09:46 PM
I think this "problem" exists due to our removal from the source of our food in modern urban society.

Not too many years back every meal you ate ment someone got bloody during the preperation. I remember killing chickens by the dozen, slauthering rabbits in mass and killing 15 hogs in one morning. That was just for family use.

Sunday dinner ment something died.

No romance, no hesitation. We said our prayer to the Lord, the critter was simply SOL.

Exactly the way it was. If we were old enough to toddle around we knew where our food came from. I never gave it any though, just eat what I kill and never killed any game just to be killing. I could care less about a trophy buck, give me a nice tender doe anytime.

rwc1969
06-18-2010, 01:05 PM
.... You are committing to killing an animal when you set a trap, not when you catch an animal.... I also feel bad for animals that I don't hit well... It makes you feel bad enough that you don't continue the practice either hold your fire or hit them hard.... I often take live quail out to the bush when I am training first timers. Every once in a while someone will hesitantly attempt to cut a birds head off, as if they can do it gently....lightly sawing away at the neck so as not to hurt the bird. I have learned to spot that kind of hesitation and now stop them before they get going. One powerful, quick stroke. Mac

Yep, if you're gonna do it, do it and don't think about the poor critter you are putting down. Hesitation and lack of precision just add to the suffering. Save the thinking for afterwards.


I feel bad and good about every animal I kill, but that's just the way it goes. The ones that haunt me are the ones that got away injured or suffered needlessly.

I've let many a magnificent buck walk on by because I didn't feel right about the shot. I've also taken some poor shots and that is why I now let em walk.

Alaskan Survivalist
06-19-2010, 04:00 AM
What about potatoes? There are still alive when you pull them up by thier roots, keep them in a cold dark place for months, skin them, cut them up and even still alive when you throw them in the frying pan. It's just to cruel to think about.

Rick
06-19-2010, 08:41 AM
Taters are dumb, though. They grow in the garden. They should know what's coming.

crashdive123
06-19-2010, 08:45 AM
You'd think with so many eyes, they would have seen you coming.

your_comforting_company
06-19-2010, 11:08 AM
You'd think with so many eyes, they would have seen you coming.

that right there is funny!

kyratshooter
06-19-2010, 06:43 PM
Perhaps I should change my name to "Tater Killer". I wonder if PITA would object to that?

rwc1969
06-19-2010, 10:00 PM
I never knew why I felt so bad about cuttin the lawn 'till now. Poor little grasses.

10mm_Bob
09-13-2010, 10:34 AM
My dad taught us how to field dress and butcher before we were allowed to hunt. I only kill for two reasons: to eat, or defend myself. Defending yourself also includes protecting your farm from pests and your livestock from predators, or defending your country/land. If you kill for any other reason, you're in the wrong in my book.

Old GI
09-13-2010, 10:43 AM
Throughout my early childhood, I heard about "Buck Fever". I was about 14 when I was deer hunting in the Catskills; solo for the first time. I experienced it when a six-pointer came within 40 yards or so and I had the clearest shot ever. I only recall awe and wonderment, I don't recall hesitation consciously due to killing reservations. He left before I recovered.

Swamprat1958
09-13-2010, 10:50 AM
This has been a good discussion. I grew up dressing and processing game and livestock. I never had any qualms about it, but my kids did not grow up in the same environment. Both have watched me process game animals, but are a little shaky when it comes to cleaning and processing. My daughter won't kill anything, but my son has come around and is harvesting game. He helps process the meat after it has been cleaned and I think over time he will do everything, but I will not push the issue for now.

rwc1969
09-13-2010, 11:58 AM
Good point about not pressing the issue Swamprat.

A long time ago I took my lil brother hunting rabbits, he shot one in the head, on the run, with a .22 LR. No hesitation! We were all real impressed. When we got home I said "you killed it so you gotta clean it". He looked at the dead rabbit, looked at me, began crying and ran inside never to hunt again.

Swamprat1958
09-13-2010, 06:01 PM
Good point about not pressing the issue Swamprat.

A long time ago I took my lil brother hunting rabbits, he shot one in the head, on the run, with a .22 LR. No hesitation! We were all real impressed. When we got home I said "you killed it so you gotta clean it". He looked at the dead rabbit, looked at me, began crying and ran inside never to hunt again.

I am just so glad that he likes to hunt I will let him come around to cleaning game on his own terms and at his pace. He is already expressing an interest in learning to cook wild game and does not mind eating medium rare venision and duck so it is just a matter of time.

Batch
09-13-2010, 06:51 PM
Practice to be accurate with your bow, muzzle loader, shotty and rifle.

I like them young and tender and as few yards from where I shot it as possible. I am humane because I am lazy and also so I don't stress my meat.

I have had a few where I had to move in and kill them off with a follow up. The debating was over before you fired. Now, you gotta just get the job done. I guess if you stare into their eyes as they pass from this world and can be hard. So, I stare at the back strap...:whistling:

AirborneEagles
09-14-2010, 06:57 AM
Well personally I guess I am a morbid kind of guy, I was out shooting gophers for sport as a kid and never had a problem trapping any when I was getting 25 cents per tail from farmers. I just grew up around it, hunting and fishing both.

I think if someone is debating on some guilt feeling, then you may not be able to find yourself a hunter. If its for food and you really get grossed out gutting out something, then stick to things that don't run like plants. =)

After all, I meet plenty of women who feel they cannot eat what they kill or watch being gutted. I don't pressure them and will gladly show them what to eat off the land and if they like pine nuts, pine needles and thistles or what ever else is handy (cattails even) then it works for me too since that is all the more meat for me.

Never met a man in this area that was squeamish to gutting and eating an animal, but if I did I would never make fun of them for not eating meat that I or anyone else killed since again, all the more for those who eat meat.

In the wild, some things take a while to get accustomed to the taste. I have even eating things most would never touch or think about eating. Some of it tasted pretty good, others like chicken. haha. I would never just expect anyone to just go out and kill something and eat it unless they tried it without seeing it gutted. It kind of ruins the moment for some and pushes them away from eating it. Others, they can eat anything as long as its food.

Take your time, if anyone has nightmares about killing bambi or a squirrel, then its just good to stick with plants.

tsitenha
09-14-2010, 01:58 PM
Like many I grew up in the hunt system and killing proffeciently ways the way to go, ...maybe like I would think before hitting a nail with a hammer just another part of the task at hand.

Batch
09-14-2010, 07:22 PM
I must miss a lot. I didn't think we were talking about cleaning an animal. I thought we were talking about feelings prior to a kill. I'll reference pre-kill here.

Since it was brought up though. My girls most likely would not prefer to process game that I have killed. But, they have watched me and have no problem eating the meat.

Even my wife who started out not wanting to eat anything I killed has come around and even talks the meat up to coworkers who think its gross to eat wild animals.

I don't puncture the gut sack unless I need something out of it though. So watching me gut an animal is not like a lot of folks. I free up the gut sack and pull it out while holding the esophagus and other end. Then you don't risk tainting the other meat. every thing comes out in a nice sack.

Big swamp gator guts stink and I don't eat the innards.

Beo
09-16-2010, 01:06 PM
If you trap but dont have the heart for the kill then dont trap, if you hunt and cant take the game with a quick clean shot, dont hunt.
If you question if you will be able to kill the animal you are trapping or hunting, then dont trap or hunt. It is only fair and responsible to the game you are hunting to be able to take it quickly and cleanly, and if trapping killing it quickly and cleanly and using as much of the animal as you can. Anything else is poor survival skills and means you need to re-evaluate your trapping and hunting skill set. But it doesnt mean you cant build up to that.
The rules of fair chase should be followed at all cost unless you are in a true survival situation.
Just my opinion
Beo,

Alaskan Survivalist
09-16-2010, 01:48 PM
Good point about not pressing the issue Swamprat.

A long time ago I took my lil brother hunting rabbits, he shot one in the head, on the run, with a .22 LR. No hesitation! We were all real impressed. When we got home I said "you killed it so you gotta clean it". He looked at the dead rabbit, looked at me, began crying and ran inside never to hunt again.

I packed out and cut up a lot of meat before before I was ever trusted to a take a shot on anything other than squirels. By then I related to it as meat and a lot of work. How I felt about things would not have mattered anyway. My father never cared what I liked or ever gave me the option of not doing something he said to do. He did make a point of explaining "thats what dead is, if you have any doubt poke it in the eye with a stick".

Camp10
09-16-2010, 07:26 PM
My boys have been my helpers for the past few years when it comes to processing. Both are very good at cutting and wrapping. The oldest drew his first moose permit a few years ago and made me proud with a clean kill with the .270. He did okay cleaning it but didnt really like the "traditional" joking and teasing that goes along with this part of the first kill.

My youngest started last season with me but doesnt seem to have the same makeup as his older brother. He really wants to be a hunter but I'm not sure he has it in him to take an animal. Ultimately it will be his choice..I will not pressure him. I am happy to have him trailing along and learning and when the time comes, I will have to let him decide for himself.

Both boys know that either way I am proud of their abillity to make a choice based on their makeup and being able to stick to it and follow through.

As for the OP, I think the pre-kill descisions need to be made before the trap is set or the rifle is drawn. At that point, it is your responsibility to be ethical and respectful of the animal that you are about to harvest.