Whale Wars

[Justin Case]

I have been watching whale Wars all day on Animal Planet, For those unfamiliar,


History

In 2007, Paul Watson persuaded the Discovery Channel to make a reality show documentary about the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society's campaign against Japanese whalers off the coast of Antarctica.[3] The Sea Shepherd Conservation Society disputes the Japanese claim that the whaling performed in the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary is legally accepted research, and contend that it is instead banned commercially based whaling.[4] Sea Shepherd has been both criticized and praised for tactics which include staging events, disseminating propaganda, throwing glass bottles of butyric acid at, boarding, and attempting to disable the Japanese vessels.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whale_Wars

Now whether you agree with their cause or not, I think these guys are not any better than Pirates, they attack and board other vessels, Throw acid, throw ropes to foul props, Then, When the pull up and jump onto the Japanese ship, They report their crew members as Kidnapped ???? What the hell ? what are they supposed to do ? Throw them overboard ? It seems to me that these whale wars guys are terrorists of sorts, It may not be very nice
that the Japanese are whaling, but if was against the Law its for the authorities to deal with if you ask me, What do you think ?

[2dumb2kwit]

I think they are radical extremist, that should be treated like the terrorizing criminals, that they are.

It's people like them, that make people like me ignore, or discount, a lot of environmentalist, because I think of them as nut jobs, like those guys.

I think they do more harm to the cause, than they do good.

[Camp10]

I agree JIC! It is terrorism and should be delt with as such. If it is a crime(and should be) for tampering with a hunter's treestand or traps, then interfering with something that can lead to death or at least injury should be dealt with severely.

[crashdive123]

They should be in jail. They are nothing more than terrorists. Purposely hazarding vessels on the open ocean, regardless of whether you agree with the whaling or not is nothing more than criminal. I believe that the Japanese ships would be justified in more aggressive defensive measures than just LRAD or water cannons. The Sea Shepard does not fly the flag of any country, but rather a skull and cross bones. Whether it's for show or not, their attacks should be met with a swift and powerful response. If the Sea Shepard were sunk while engaged in attempting to ram another ship, it would be justified IMO.

[Camp10]

Wouldnt it be ironic if a whale was to sink one of their ships?

[Justin Case]

They should be in jail. They are nothing more than terrorists. Purposely hazarding vessels on the open ocean, regardless of whether you agree with the whaling or not is nothing more than criminal. I believe that the Japanese ships would be justified in more aggressive defensive measures than just LRAD or water cannons. The Sea Shepard does not fly the flag of any country, but rather a skull and cross bones. Whether it's for show or not, their attacks should be met with a swift and powerful response. If the Sea Shepard were sunk while engaged in attempting to ram another ship, it would be justified IMO.

actually, they do fly a country flag, That was just on TV, he named the country but I wasnt paying that much attention and i forget what country, He said without a country flag, their ship could be legally considered a Pirate ship .
Ok, I googled it, Its Dutch,, and people are Pizzed > http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/appeal-to-the-dutch-government-who-wants-emergency-act-against-environmental-pirates-sea-shepherd

also, The vessels name has been changed from "The Sea Shepard" to "The Steve Irwin".

[crashdive123]

I had read that after last season (the one airing now before the new one starts tonight) that their registry was pulled. Also, that there were arrest warrants in a few countries for the captain and some of the crew. I'll see what I can find.

[Justin Case]

I had read that after last season (the one airing now before the new one starts tonight) that their registry was pulled. Also, that there were arrest warrants in a few countries for the captain and some of the crew. I'll see what I can find.

Ohhh, well That could be,

[Ken]

I despise eco-terrorists. No justification whatsoever for messing with legal hunting or trapping, either. They should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

And so should poachers.

But what happens when no law enforcement agency wants to do the right thing? (Just like the administration's "look the other way" policy on the Mexican border.)

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Deep Breath. :innocent:

Okay, let me start a firestorm here. I respect all of your opinions, but I entirely disagree.

I look at the Japanese Whalers as the criminals. They are not conducting legal "scientific research" in the course of their slaughter of critically endangered whale species. The only research going on in Japan deals with sushi and dinner recipies.

As a guy who has spent years on the ocean and once spent over 24 hours in the water trying to save the life of a whale, I'd love to see the entire Japanese Whaling Fleet sunk.

[crashdive123]

I never said that the Japanese were in the right. I disagree with what they are doing. The laws that govern (or supposedly outlaw) the harvesting of whales are a joke. Those that want to truly protect the whales would be better served by getting those laws changed through the International Whalin Commission. The tactics that the azzhats use make some sympathetic to the Japanese fishermen, whose actions, while abhorant, fall within the guidelines set forth by the IWC.

[Justin Case]

Its not really about what the Fleet is doing, I dont like it either, Its about the Whale Wars guys taking the law into their own hand and terrorizing other vessels in international waters,

[2dumb2kwit]

Y'all will have to forgive Ken. His head isn't on right, tonight.........today, he ran over a calf. (Or something like that.):innocent:

[Ken]

The tactics that the azzhats use make some sympathetic to the Japanese fishermen, whose actions, while abhorant, fall within the guidelines set forth by the IWC.

Abhorant and CRIMINAL. The IWC permits limited whaling for scientific research. Not for this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c2/Whale_meat_on_sale_at_a_Tokyo_fish_market_in_2008. jpg/800px-Whale_meat_on_sale_at_a_Tokyo_fish_market_in_2008. jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c2/Whale_meat_on_sale_at_a_Tokyo_fish_market_in_2008. jpg)

[crashdive123]

Ken - that is what I meant by the current laws being a joke. They allow each country to set their own limit on whales collected for "research" and to sell any meat they harvest. Until that changes, the Japanese will continue to follow current law - albeit, not the intent.

[Justin Case]

Yes, By Law, They cannot Waste the Meat after they do their "Research", I think we can all agree that "Research" is not their motive.

[Ken]

Ken - that is what I meant by the current laws being a joke. They allow each country to set their own limit on whales collected for "research" and to sell any meat they harvest. Until that changes, the Japanese will continue to follow current law - albeit, not the intent.

I know that we're on the same side - somewhat.

However, if killing 2 year old toddlers in playgrounds was legal, and some Japanese group was doing it, I'd damn well love to see their boat sunk.

I raelize that comparing human beings to whales is a stretch, but I think you get my point.

And I'll bet all the tea in Japan that the whalers are killing far more whales than the perverted law allows them to do.

[2dumb2kwit]

I know that we're on the same side - somewhat.

However, if killing 2 year old toddlers in playgrounds was legal, and some Japanese group was doing it, I'd damn well love to see their boat sunk.

I raelize that comparing human beings to whales is a stretch, but I think you get my point.

And I'll bet all the tea in Japan that the whalers are killing far more whales than the perverted law allows them to do.

Yeah, but that fact remains, that if those terrorist would film what the jap whalers are doing and stay within the law doing it, then the whalers would be the bad guys, and the film crew would be saint's for showing the world, the evil whalers. What they are doing is only making the whalers look like the victims.

[Ken]

They're all big boys playing a big boys' game. Too bad the Sea Shepherd ship didn't carry torpedos.

[Ken]

Yeah, but that fact remains, that if those terrorist would film what the jap whalers are doing and stay within the law doing it, then the whalers would be the bad guys, and the film crew would be saint's for showing the world, the evil whalers. What they are doing is only making the whalers look like the victims.

The whalers would deny the evidence. They would claim that the same whale was counted multiple times. It's pretty hard to identify a whale covered in blood.

And, as always, nothing would happen to them.

[Justin Case]

Yeah, but that fact remains, that if those terrorist would film what the jap whalers are doing and stay within the law doing it, then the whalers would be the bad guys, and the film crew would be saint's for showing the world, the evil whalers. What they are doing is only making the whalers look like the victims.

I wonder How much they were paid to do this show ?

[Camp10]

They're all big boys playing a big boys' game. Too bad the Sea Shepherd ship didn't carry torpedos.

If they did, it would be an act of war....I kind of think it is anyways. I dont disagree that what the Japanese is doing is wrong but there is a limit to what you can do against another nation.

[Ken]

If they did, it would be an act of war....I kind of think it is anyways. I dont disagree that what the Japanese is doing is wrong but there is a limit to what you can do against another nation.

I understand your point. However, I'd also like to see merchant ships carry 8" guns. Take care of that pirate problem mighty quick.

[2dumb2kwit]

I understand your point. However, I'd also like to see merchant ships carry 8" guns. Take care of that pirate problem mighty quick.

I agree with this, but I think the guys from sea shepherd are the pirates/terrorist.

[crashdive123]

I'm watching the new episode now. Looks like they plan to be even more radical than before.

[Ken]

I agree with this, but I think the guys from sea shepherd are the pirates/terrorist.

It's all a matter of perspective. I think the whalers are the criminals and environmental terrorists.

[2dumb2kwit]

It's all a matter of perspective. I think the whalers are the criminals and environmental terrorists.

To me, it's like a gang fight. There are no good guys.

[Camp10]

I understand your point. However, I'd also like to see merchant ships carry 8" guns. Take care of that pirate problem mighty quick.

I agree that they should carry guns. They should use these guns when there is a threat on their lives or cargo. I agree with 2D though on who the criminals are in this.

Find a legal answer to the problem that can actually work, and I'll be all for it.

[Justin Case]

Blame the Japanese for their love of Raw Fish ,, YUCK !

[2dumb2kwit]

So, Ken.....If a bunch of Canadians said that Stargazer was killin' too many Turkeys (OK, it's a stretch, but stick with me on this.), then would you be OK with them running him off the road, and maybe off a cliff when they saw him heading out to hunt? (Endangering his life, and theirs.)

[crashdive123]

Watching now, it looks like the Japanese have decided enough is enough.

[Ken]

So, Ken.....If a bunch of Canadians said that Stargazer was killin' too many Turkeys (OK, it's a stretch, but stick with me on this.), then would you be OK with them running him off the road, and maybe off a cliff when they saw him heading out to hunt? (Endangering his life, and theirs.)

Let's say they were Bald Eagles. Or Panda Bears. Or some other highly endangered species. Let's say it was an "unknown person" - Stargazer, you, or me. Let's say he wasn't killing because he was hungry and had no alternative, but let's say it was killing for profit.

Which way is the cliff? :sneaky2:

[Justin Case]

Watching now, it looks like the Japanese have decided enough is enough.

Its only 7pm here, I'm still watching last season.

[Camp10]

Let's say they were Bald Eagles. Or Panda Bears. Or some other highly endangered species. Let's say it was an "unknown person" - Stargazer, you, or me. Let's say he wasn't killing because he was hungry and had no alternative, but let's say it was killing for profit.

Which way is the cliff? :sneaky2:

Bald eagles arent endangered anymore. http://www.baldeagleinfo.com/ I know it doesnt change your point but this is how people get all up in arms over nothing.:innocent:

[crashdive123]

Well Ken - you're the attorney. If somebody is harvesting animals illegally they are in violation of the law. If you or I see it and report it the law must take its course. If however you or I take the law into our own hands and beat the living tar out of the person (no matter how much they deserve it), we will - and should face criminal prosecution. Additionally - the person havesting animals illegally should have the right to defend themselves.

[Justin Case]

I barely Caught it, But This web site is painted just above the loading ramp they use to pull the dead whales aboard of the Japanese Possessing Ship > http://www.icrwhale.org/eng-index.htm

Have a look, Those Guys get attacked by Everybody ! LOL

[crashdive123]

Pointing what looks like a high intensity laser at the fishermen? Like I said - they ought to be in jail and the captain should lose his credentials.

[Ken]

Well Ken - you're the attorney. If somebody is harvesting animals illegally they are in violation of the law. If you or I see it and report it the law must take its course. If however you or I take the law into our own hands and beat the living tar out of the person (no matter how much they deserve it), we will - and should face criminal prosecution. Additionally - the person havesting animals illegally should have the right to defend themselves.

Problem is, there's a law enforcement void here. The Japanese are violating the law in a big way and no legitimate law enforcement agency even seems concerned.

The Japanese are criminals and the Sea Shepherd gang are vigilantes.

Let's say that Criminal Gang A is terrorizing a neighborhood and the police are doing nothing to stop it. How many residents will complain if Criminal Gang B moves in, and A and B start killing each other off?

Remember that PETA raccoon video that Rick recently referenced? Skinning animals alive is perfectly legal in China. Nonetheless, wouldn't some of us just love to empty a shotgun into the b@stards doing the skinning?

[crashdive123]

Not disagreeing, but the activists of the Sea Shepard Society that are doing this should not act surprised if there is retaliation. In the promo's for the show the leader of the group says something like we are prepared to die for our cause. If that happens while others are defending themselves it won't do their cause much good, unless they see themselves as martyrs. Not much difference in that and the group that thinks there are 76 sturgeons waiting for them after they "martyr" themselves. I'm not equating the loss of human lives and whales, but rather a belief system with a lot of similarities.

[Ken]

Not disagreeing, but the activists of the Sea Shepard Society that are doing this should not act surprised if there is retaliation.

I agree. Two outlaw gangs in a turf war. I just happen to favor one side over the other. Kinda' like watching wrestling on TV back in the 70's. :)

[Justin Case]

I watched the re runs all day and fell asleep as the theme music played for the first show of the new season,,,, http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/images/icons/icon8.gif

[Batch]

I wonder why the whalers don't use the videos from the show to prosecute the radicals?

Seems a double edged sword to me.

[Justin Case]

I wonder why the whalers don't use the videos from the show to prosecute the radicals?

Seems a double edged sword to me.

During the last episode of the last season, The Whale wars ship rammed a Japanese ship, The Japanese government made a complaint, The Police were waiting for the "steve Irwin" to dock, they seized everything, Show video (which was copied and returned), all the computers, personal logs, charts, etc, from the ship, a list of Charges are pending,

[scabbyota]

I think they are crazy as you know what, but I still like to watch them.

[BENESSE]

Yeah, but that fact remains, that if those terrorist would film what the jap whalers are doing and stay within the law doing it, then the whalers would be the bad guys, and the film crew would be saint's for showing the world, the evil whalers. What they are doing is only making the whalers look like the victims.

I'd prefer to make them victims myself. :)

[woodsman86]

I agree with the Sea Sheppard’s mission. Though their methods are controversial and hazardous, they are doing what the international community is not. The area which the Japanese hunt has been declared a whale sanctuary and they still choose to ignore that fact. What they are doing is just plain barbaric and not necessary. I am an avid hunter, but would never hunt for profit or outside of the laws. If the international community would stand up to the Japanese, the Sea Sheppard would not resort to such actions. They are one of the few environmental groups I agree with, they are not attacking legal whalers. Here is excerpt from Wikipedia on the whale sanctuary.


The Australian Whale Sanctuary was established in 1999 to protect dolphins and whales from hunting.[1] The non-contiguous zone includes the Australia's Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ), which is the area 200 nautical miles (370 km) surrounding the continent of Australia and its external dependencies such as Christmas Island (in the Indian Ocean), Cocos (Keeling) Island, Norfolk Island, Heard Island and Macdonald Island. It also includes the EEZ around the Australian Antarctic Territory which is only recognised by United Kingdom, New Zealand, France and Norway.[2]

The Sanctuary is the scene of an ongoing controversy between Australia and Japan over whaling. In 2008 the Australian Federal Court ruled it was illegal under Australian law for the Japanese whaling fleet to kill whales in the Sanctuary.

[Ken]

Promises, promises....... :sneaky2:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/06/05/obama-backing-deal-lift-global-ban-commercial-whaling/

[woodsman86]

A great link, I had not read that story yet. I need to watch my news feeds closer. Though I cannot comment on our current presidency; I can say I voted Republican.

There is no useful purpose to hunt whales in our modern world, other than to be eaten by the Japanese. We no longer need the meat or oil to survive like our ancestors did. Wait until they kill them all and throw the ocean's ecosystem into a frenzy.-end rant:)

[Justin Case]

Promises, promises....... :sneaky2:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/06/05/obama-backing-deal-lift-global-ban-commercial-whaling/


Under Obama's deal, the three whaling countries would be allowed to keep hunting whales for a 10-year period in reduced numbers. The whaling countries in return would agree to tighter oversight of their operations, including participation in a whale DNA registry.

"We recognize that these measures do not meet the needs of those who want a complete end to whaling now, but neither can it be characterized as a whalers' charter," the whaling commission said in a press release announcing the proposal. "We believe that it is undeniably better than the status quo."

He cant control other countries ,,, The current laws allow whaling without oversight, it sounds like this deal will put oversight in place, Remember, There are 2 sides to every story.

[crashdive123]

I loved the line "illegally exploiting a loophole in the law". Yeah that's what folks that are responsible for poorly crafted language in a law say rather than admit "we screwed up, and what they are doing is legal. I'll bet he takes advantage of every "tax loophole".

[2dumb2kwit]

I loved the line "illegally exploiting a loophole in the law". Yeah that's what folks that are responsible for poorly crafted language in a law say rather than admit "we screwed up, and what they are doing is legal. I'll bet he takes advantage of every "tax loophole".

...and election law loopholes, and campaign finance loopholes, and....:innocent:

[BENESSE]

...and election law loopholes, and campaign finance loopholes, and....:innocent:

Are we going down memory lane?

[BENESSE]

He cant control other countries ,,, The current laws allow whaling without oversight, it sounds like this deal will put oversight in place, Remember, There are 2 sides to every story.

Three, actually. The third being the truth.

[2dumb2kwit]

Are we going down memory lane?

I'm not sure what you mean, by that, but my view is that dirty is dirty, I don't care what letter they have after their name.

We can argue left wing, and right wing all day, but don't forget that they are both wings of the same friggin' bird.:innocent: LOL

[BENESSE]

I'm not sure what you mean, by that, but my view is that dirty is dirty, I don't care what letter they have after their name.

We can argue left wing, and right wing all day, but don't forget that they are both wings of the same friggin' bird.:innocent: LOL

Agreed.
Never hurts to reiterate, though.

[2dumb2kwit]

Agreed.
Never hurts to reiterate, though.

Doesn't hurt to repeat it, either.:innocent: LOL

[BENESSE]

Doesn't hurt to repeat it, either.:innocent: LOL

That too.:winkiss:

[crashdive123]

Wow - Déjà vu all over again.

[BENESSE]

Wow - Déjà vu all over again.

We're all getting old crash, if it weren't for a deja vu we wouldn't remember a thing.