PDA

View Full Version : Fire Drill and Fungus Experiment



crashdive123
04-23-2010, 07:29 PM
Alaskan Survivalist peaked my curiosity with his thread on "Transporting Fire". I have a few pieces of very dry fungus so I thought I'd give it a try. With the first attempt I got a lot of smoke, but no coal. On the second attempt I cut a small notch to give it a little "breathing room". The spindle was a piece of Crape Myrtle. The spindle was fairly soft too, and as you can see, the end sort of glazed. I did scrape the end before I gave it a second try. I did not get nearly the burn time that Alaskan Survivalist did - probably because of how dry the fungus was. I got about one and a half hours of smoldering ember before the piece was entirely consumed.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii67/crashdive123/Bushcraft/CarpenterBeesandFungusFireExperi-14.jpg

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii67/crashdive123/Bushcraft/CarpenterBeesandFungusFireExperi-13.jpg

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii67/crashdive123/Bushcraft/CarpenterBeesandFungusFireExperi-12.jpg

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii67/crashdive123/Bushcraft/CarpenterBeesandFungusFireExperi-11.jpg

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii67/crashdive123/Bushcraft/CarpenterBeesandFungusFireExperi-10.jpg

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii67/crashdive123/Bushcraft/CarpenterBeesandFungusFireExperi-9.jpg

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii67/crashdive123/Bushcraft/CarpenterBeesandFungusFireExperi-8.jpg

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii67/crashdive123/Bushcraft/CarpenterBeesandFungusFireExperi-7.jpg

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii67/crashdive123/Bushcraft/CarpenterBeesandFungusFireExperi-2.jpg

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii67/crashdive123/Bushcraft/CarpenterBeesandFungusFireExperi-1.jpg

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii67/crashdive123/Bushcraft/CarpenterBeesandFungusFireExperimen.jpg

Alaskan Survivalist
04-23-2010, 07:40 PM
I tried and failed but I think I will dry mine out and try again with a notch the way you did it. Very good! Shows the usefulness of the forum. I'll try again when mine has dried out. Also judging by knife my piece is about 4 times the size of yours that may be inpart explanation for longer burn time but mine is definately damp.

crashdive123
04-23-2010, 07:47 PM
I've been using some of the dried out fungus and cutting it into wicks for oil lamps. Gene (Erunk........) gave me the idea with some of his posts.

randyt
04-23-2010, 07:49 PM
that sounds nifty. are you meaning a wick for a betty type lamp or kudlik?

crashdive123
04-23-2010, 07:58 PM
that sounds nifty. are you meaning a wick for a betty type lamp or kudlik?

More of a field expedient kuklik. Rock with depression, coconut shell, sea shells, trash, etc. I've been playing around with lamps and stoves thanks to Gene's inspiration.

IA Woodsman
04-23-2010, 08:02 PM
That is very cool. Just put that on the to do list. Thanks

your_comforting_company
04-23-2010, 08:09 PM
Awesome Crash! Feels Great doesn't it! Thanks for sharing the discovery!

crashdive123
04-23-2010, 08:30 PM
I've got another I want to try - kind of ran out of gas and time - using the same spindle and a dry cabbage palm branch.

rwc1969
04-23-2010, 08:33 PM
Interesting, I'm surprised it burned up so quick.

Alaskan Survivalist
04-23-2010, 08:46 PM
I tried again with a notch but it did not work. Mine is just too wet which will probably be a problem most of the year. I will be looking to see if I can find some that is dry enough in its natural state for use. I will be drying mine out but I'm looking for a more field expedient method.

crashdive123
04-23-2010, 08:53 PM
Even drying some over a fire would be a realistic scenario. If you have an established camp and need to move, check a trap line, fishing, etc. you could dry some and take it with you.

Alaskan Survivalist
04-23-2010, 08:59 PM
That sounds like a great idea. I will put it to the test when I get the chance. Thanks.

crashdive123
04-24-2010, 07:51 AM
Two great threads going on this. Crash - you are awesome - and I liked you showing your Tom Brown Tracker style knife (your make and design sir?) and what looks to be a well cared for Mora - and have to wonder how you blooded your fingers :)

Yes - that was one of my earlier knife projects.

The Mora is a relatively recent aquisition.

Blood? Nah - just something to go along with the sweat and tears.:innocent:

gryffynklm
04-24-2010, 08:48 AM
Great post, Now I have to find some shelf fungus.

Batch
04-24-2010, 09:41 PM
The carrying fire thing is something I want to own. But, I am still working on the fire drill. I had my son's girlfriend video some trials tonight. I get coals like nobody's business. But, no fire...

I'll post up to my willow thread when she gets back with her camera cable.

crashdive123
04-24-2010, 10:14 PM
The carrying fire thing is something I want to own. But, I am still working on the fire drill. I had my son's girlfriend video some trials tonight. I get coals like nobody's business. But, no fire...

I'll post up to my willow thread when she gets back with her camera cable.

Batch - if you're getting a coal, that is the goal. Transfer that coal to your tinder birds nest and start blowing to get your flame.

Batch
04-25-2010, 11:11 AM
I got to get the tinder bundle right. I didn't have any dead grass or anything. But, I tried cotton, dryer lint, palm tree fibers. Everything will fire right up with a fire steel but not with my coals.

I can get a coal in about 15 seconds every single time and they are about the same size as the one in the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSvnMw3pGCg

crashdive123
04-25-2010, 04:46 PM
I got to get the tinder bundle right. I didn't have any dead grass or anything. But, I tried cotton, dryer lint, palm tree fibers. Everything will fire right up with a fire steel but not with my coals.

I can get a coal in about 15 seconds every single time and they are about the same size as the one in the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSvnMw3pGCg

Until you get the hang of it, try practicing with some jute or sisal rope. Cut a few lengths about four or five inches long and then untwist them until you have a handful of loose (single) fibers about the size of a softball. Make a small depression in it and place your coal in the depression. Other materials that might be in your area - the dead fibers from the Cabbage palms (off the trunk, not the leaves). Rub them between your hands (like you are trying to warm your hands) to break up the fibers. Other materials - Cattail fluff or any of the other seed pods that fluff up - won't be available till later in the season though. Add them to your dried grasses (rub those drided grasses like you do with the palm fibers). Pine needles - again - rub em to make finer pieces. Dried bark fromthe Southern Cedar works well. It's all about experimenting and finding out what works best for you.

Rick
04-25-2010, 05:29 PM
Agave (stalk) - Very Easy (probably not in wet conditions)
Ailanthus – Easy
American Basswood – Very Easy
American Beech – Difficult
American Elm – Difficult
Apple – Very Difficult, unsuccessful so far
Atlantic White Cedar – Very Easy
Balsam Fir – Easy, bonus: sap is only found in bark
Black Ash – Difficult
Black Birch - Moderately Difficult
Black Cherry – Very Difficult
Black Walnut – Moderately Difficult/ Very Difficult, white sapwood works/unsuccessful with dark heartwood
Box Elder – Moderately Easy
Common Juniper – Easy
Eastern Cottonwood – Easy
Eastern Cottonwood Root – Very Easy
Eastern Hemlock – Moderately Difficult, need to select as sap free wood as possible
Eastern Hop Hornbeam – Difficult
Eastern Red Cedar – Moderately Easy
Evening Primrose on Basswood – Easy
Grey Birch – Moderately Easy, always wet, must be dried
Mullein on Cedar – Easy
Northern White Cedar – Very Easy
Pitch Pine – Moderately Difficult, try to find as sap free wood as possible
Quaking Aspen – Moderately Difficult, hard to find dry wood
Red Maple – Difficult
Red Oak – Difficult
Red Pine – Moderately Easy
Saguaro Cactus – Very Easy, easy to find dead standing cactus, use ribs
Sassafras – Difficult
Speckled Alder – Easy, virtually impossible to find dead dry wood
Spruce (species?) – Moderately Difficult
Staghorn Sumac – Moderately Easy
Striped Maple – Moderately Difficult
Tamarack – Moderately Easy
White Ash – Difficult
White Pine – Moderately Easy, must use wood without sap, does not work well after rain
White Pine Root – Very Difficult, don't even waste your time
Willow (species?) – Easy
Yellow Birch – Moderately Easy
Yellow Poplar – Moderately Easy

When using hardwoods downward pressure on the spindle must be lessened and speed increased. Softwoods (mainly conifers) absorb moisture faster than hardwoods, so may not be the woods of choice after several days of rain; however, if you have a knife outer wood can be carved away to reach dry interior.

Source: http://survivalinstructor.blogspot.com/2006/08/bow-drill-woods.html

Rick
04-25-2010, 05:46 PM
I was intrigued with American Basswood on this list. It's no secret I'm completely inept at fire making with sticks but this could prove interesting. Basswood is considered one of the top 100 most common trees in the central and eastern U.S. Parts of it are edible, too. So this could prove to be a great tree for folks to learn about since it's so plentiful. Since the author rated American Basswood at "very easy" that will be my next target.

crashdive123
04-25-2010, 07:39 PM
Friction fire is something that I do want to get better at. I was lucky not to put out the ember in the fungus due to how much I was sweating when I did it.

Batch
04-26-2010, 11:33 AM
Until you get the hang of it, try practicing with some jute or sisal rope. Cut a few lengths about four or five inches long and then untwist them until you have a handful of loose (single) fibers about the size of a softball. Make a small depression in it and place your coal in the depression.


Other materials that might be in your area - the dead fibers from the Cabbage palms (off the trunk, not the leaves).

That is what I tried first. The cabbage palm is also called the sabal palm. I use this to start most of my fires.


Rub them between your hands (like you are trying to warm your hands) to break up the fibers.

I'll try rubbing them. I usually just kinda fluff them out and try to make a kind of uniform fluffed density.


Other materials - Cattail fluff or any of the other seed pods that fluff up - won't be available till later in the season though. Add them to your dried grasses (rub those drided grasses like you do with the palm fibers). Pine needles - again - rub em to make finer pieces. Dried bark from the Southern Cedar works well. It's all about experimenting and finding out what works best for you.

Yeah, there ain't much fluff to the cattails yet. I was in the glades yesterday and gathered up some dried grass and some dead palm frongs and some wheat like grass.

I made a birds nest of the grass and put the palm fibers in the center. I put the coals in there and blew on them. But, they either burn out or fall to smaller pieces. It actually burns through the fibers with out igniting. You can see in the video the glowing embers coming off of the cotton.

I tried last night till I was sopped in sweat (very humid and hot yesterday). Burned through the hearth and started a new hole and put it too close to the middle and so instead of working with that, I made another hole. But, I put that to close to the edge. LOL I got a tiny ember and then next try I edge of the hearth broke on the hole.

I put the bow, drill, hearth and tinder back in storage and went to take a shower whilst mumbling a comprehensive list of colorful words. :sneaky2::innocent:

I will keep at it until I get it and I appreciate the help.

Rick, that is a good list to have. Thanks, for posting it!

Rick
04-26-2010, 11:55 AM
It's kinda funny because all the woods I have tried are listed as Very Difficult on that list. So it gives me new hope that I might actually be able to do this. Now, if the rain will stop....

hunter63
04-27-2010, 06:20 PM
I had been pulling some of the "shelf fungus ?" off a bunch of dead trees, and playing with it in between hunting and napping.

Is the bottom hard?
I tried the Ferro Rod, nada.
Tryed scraping it to powder, Nada.
Tried setting on fire with my Bic, kinda......sorta.
Maybe not the right stuff?
Gonna be heading out again end of the week for some more "Place" time.

crashdive123
04-27-2010, 07:59 PM
H63 - by sorta do you mean that you got a coal? If so, that's really about it unless you add some fuel (bacon fat, cooking oil, etc.)

hunter63
04-27-2010, 08:14 PM
No, it wouldn't stay going.
I am familiar with what to do with a coal, but I would have though I would be able to blow on it and get it going.
That was with the Bic, direct flame, can't imagine trying to catch a spark?

your_comforting_company
04-27-2010, 11:56 PM
Sounds like your ember and dustpile are falling apart, Batch. If you don't have any fluff to use to catch your dustpile in transfer, use a leaf under the hearth and move the whole leaf (or piece of paper) to the edge of the birdsnest and roll your tindle over on it.

Batch
04-28-2010, 09:37 PM
Yeah, I am going to try some more this weekend. I'll try fluffing everything more and transferring the coal like you said.

I think I saw some Yucca flowers in a field today. But, it was getting dark and we were on the wrong side of a large canal. Didn't see the whole plant because it was behind some other plants. But the stem and the white flowers looked right.

Alaskan Survivalist
04-28-2010, 09:52 PM
It's kinda funny because all the woods I have tried are listed as Very Difficult on that list. So it gives me new hope that I might actually be able to do this. Now, if the rain will stop....

The type of wood was not what got it reliably working for me, it was design details. I don't have any of those woods here so I just use the hardest, driest wood I can find. I posted those details on another thread somewhere. I always look at things more from a mechanical perspective. This is a difference between me and most of you. You ask what and I ask why?

your_comforting_company
04-28-2010, 10:00 PM
just remember where you saw it. If it had flowers on it, it'll be months before it's ready to harvest for firemaking. The flower petals are a bit bitter and taste like my grandma's bad candy (some kind of medicine-stuff). I'm eager to try the fruits but since those are in a field, they probably won't fruit.
I learned only a few weeks ago that the yucca is pollinated by only one insect: the yucca moth. No moths = no fruits, even though "love-bugs" crawl all over them.
supposedly you hollow out the fruits, like you would a bell pepper and stuff it with potatoes (or root veggies) cheese and butter (and some bacon for you carnivores). sounds yummy, but I wouldn't try it last year.

hunter63
05-13-2010, 04:17 PM
OK, so here a couple of pic's of my trial piece og fungus, even tried scrapping some off, to get a spark to catch
Also the mentioned rabbit pellets, and a wasp nest, (yeah I know wrong kind of wasp nest)
Not much luck with any of it.


http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/hunter63/DSCF0161.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/hunter63/DSCF0158.jpg

your_comforting_company
05-13-2010, 11:10 PM
I came across some rabbit pellets the other day and couldn't get them to catch a spark either.
I have no problem with the true-tinder fungus catching spark. Looks like your's caught too.

hunter63
05-13-2010, 11:14 PM
I came across some rabbit pellets the other day and couldn't get them to catch a spark either.
I have no problem with the true-tinder fungus catching spark. Looks like your's caught too.

LOL, yeah with a Bic.......LOL.....
Oh, well back to the drawing board,, of course that why we don't have Preparation "A" or "B"

crashdive123
05-14-2010, 08:13 AM
LOL, yeah with a Bic.......LOL.....
Oh, well back to the drawing board,, of course that why we don't have Preparation "A" or "B"

For catching a spark from a fero rod/steel, try cutting away a little of the outter covering, exposing the inner cork like "meat". I've had some success catching a spark this way as long as the fungus was dry enough.

hunter63
05-14-2010, 09:51 AM
Crash as you can see I scrapped a bunch out with my knife, even tried to get the powder to catch a spark, of course this was on the underside.
Are you suggesting the top coating?

I brought a big one home so I have something to play with here in the "city".

justin_baker
05-14-2010, 01:47 PM
Is it possible to make fire from a coal and wood shavings? Like a pile of tiny, saw dust size shavings.

Survival Guy 10
07-30-2010, 02:05 PM
I got to get the tinder bundle right. I didn't have any dead grass or anything. But, I tried cotton, dryer lint, palm tree fibers. Everything will fire right up with a fire steel but not with my coals.

I can get a coal in about 15 seconds every single time and they are about the same size as the one in the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSvnMw3pGCg

thy taking the coal to the fuel in stead of taking fuel to the coal so like nock the coal out onto the tinder

BushedOut
07-31-2010, 05:07 AM
Just added to my to do list!

Batch
08-01-2010, 09:35 AM
thy taking the coal to the fuel in stead of taking fuel to the coal so like nock the coal out onto the tinder

I blew the tinder off of the paper in that video. So, I had to pick the coal up with the tinder. My problem there was I didn't have anything with the cotton. I have since found that using a light tinder, backed by a slightly heavier tinder, backed by some thing dense enough to help conserve the air you blow into the tinder bundle. Actually, I don't know if it is the air or the heat that it conserves. Maybe both. But, something like dry grass or even dry leaves on the out side of the tinder bundle seem to make the tinder bundle ignite much quicker. Even just cupping the tinder bundle in my hands when I blow into it seems to make it ignite much quicker.

Also, I don't blow on the ember to create the coal anymore. Now, take my time and just lightly fan the ember into a coal using my hand.

Every time I make a fire with a bow drill I learn something new. Also, learning to make fire with friction elevates your ability to make fire with simpler methods by teaching better tinder techniques. I have had a bit of a tough time starting a fire in the rain. But, it was raining when I pulled into camp on Friday night after gathering some larger wood for the fire I used just what was available within camp to build a fire in a couple of minutes to prep and within a few seconds of igniting the tinder bundle we had a good fire to dry out the rest of the wood. Despite it having been raining off and on all afternoon.

You can see the water line on my nephew's pant legs to see the water line to get wood. At this point the fire is made up almost completely of sabal palm tinder, jack boots, and dead fronds. But, soon it will be a hot oak fire.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/bigcypress/dinner_island_7_30_10/P7310015.jpg

your_comforting_company
08-02-2010, 06:50 AM
Great job batch! would you agree that it is more mechanical? I find that with different materials I adjust my mechanics, i.e. pressure and speed, rather than material, or set-up.
Starting a fire with wet materials is an achievement in itself. Congratulations brother and well done!