550 paracord

[survivalpro#4]

hey i wanted to now if you were to take 550 paracord with you on a small hike witch way would you carry it?


1.a bracelet
2.belt
3. or in a 50ft bundle in your pack

[Ken]

Hey, I wanna' know if you're gonna' post an Introduction. Have you done one already?

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7813

[crashdive123]

Yes.

Bracelet, belt, hat band, small hanks, sheath wrap, rifle sling, bottle wrap, knife wrap, hiking pole wrap, and on and on. Depends on where I'm hikning, and how long I'll be.

Hey - don't get tied up in knots over it, but when you get a chance - stop on by the Introduction section and tell us about yourself. Thanks.

[Rick]

What Crash said. Plenty of ways to carry it. Plenty more uses for it.

[finallyME]

I recently bought a big roll of the stuff. I am still debating on how to carry it. I think I might make a bracelet. But I also want to roll it on something to make it easier to use. Something like what nutnfancy has on his USK.

[Alaskan Survivalist]

I carry mine seperately. If I want to use it I don't want to be untieing a bunch of knots to do it.

[finallyME]

sjj, have you looked at amsteel?

http://www.reddenmarine.com/marine-supplies.cfm/multipurpose-amsteel-blueassorted-colors/samson-rope-amstlblu764grn/amsteel-blue-7-64-green.html

[finallyME]

Wow, you work fast. I haven't bought any myself, but it is all the rage with hammockers for rigging their systems. I just bought some 1 mm line that I think is dacron and has a 200lb test at a local store. When I get home, I will tell you what it is. I was looking for tarp lines and 200 lb test is much higher than I need.

[crashdive123]

I carry mine seperately. If I want to use it I don't want to be untieing a bunch of knots to do it.

One of the knots I tie for braclets (or what every else you wand to use it for) "unties" quickly. The braclet on the left - cut off button knot and pull. That's it. You now have (in this case) 8 feet of paracord.

[survivalpro#4]

hey chrashdive is it true that each inch of your wrist is a foot of cord with a cobra stitch?

[Ken]

sjj, have you looked at amsteel?

http://www.reddenmarine.com/marine-supplies.cfm/multipurpose-amsteel-blueassorted-colors/samson-rope-amstlblu764grn/amsteel-blue-7-64-green.html

Great link and good info! Thanks, fM! :clap:


The dealer told me the guaranteed "test lbs." on the line is 1,400 lbs. and it is usually go to 1,600 lbs. Of course, its CRITCAL to understand what the safe "working load" is - which is usually a whole lot less that test lbs.

Let me ignite a possible firestorm here. :innocent:

Back in the day, I taught classes in rappelling. Local fire, rescue, and SWAT teams. We trained off of high-rise buildings, water tanks, and a couple of pretty tall bridges, including these two sites:

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ZSpyBgUAWXNKXM:http://www.emporis.com/img/6/2004/10/310074.jpg (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.emporis.com/img/6/2004/10/310074.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.emporis.com/application/%3Fnav%3Dimage%26id%3D310074&usg=__ghKzWEfuvO3Ip9scopK5_9ls1LM=&h=454&w=600&sz=119&hl=en&start=1&itbs=1&tbnid=ZSpyBgUAWXNKXM:&tbnh=102&tbnw=135&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmedeiros%2Btowers%26hl%3Den%26safe%3D off%26sa%3DG%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:1) http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:zxCwqnYiNYU9HM:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c2/Braga_Bridge.JPG (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c2/Braga_Bridge.JPG&imgrefurl=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Braga_Bridge.JPG&usg=__YNPrvQ1yS8Vl1UE1Mz4EO7KVhso=&h=1080&w=1920&sz=980&hl=en&start=3&itbs=1&tbnid=zxCwqnYiNYU9HM:&tbnh=84&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbraga%2Bbridge%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff %26sa%3DG%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:1)


When I started as a student myself at the academy, we used 3/4" manilla line (rope :innocent:) and a rappelling belt with 3 buckles and a 10" - 6 lb. carabiner. The belt was designed to attach to the rings of a second belt and hold the weight of two heavy men descending with gear. It worked exactly as it was designed to. I can't find anything on the web quite like it, but it was on this line, just a much wider belt with a three "belt buckle" set-up and a much larger pair of rings and carabiner.

http://www.rangermade.us/store/catalog/images/eagleIER-1belt.jpg

Over the years, the gear I used became much smaller and lighter, and we switched over to 3/4" synthetic line. Last time I rappelled was about 6 years ago, and I used a newer style belt and 1/2" line and was amazed at how light it all was, even in comparison to the "newer" stuff I had used later on in my classes. :blushing:

Back in the 80's, I spent some time doing contract work at the WTC. Even then, I thought about getting trapped in that building in the event of a fire. Little did I ever suspect how bad it could have been ..... Anyway, I remember thinking that if my regular office were there, I would want enough line on hand to be able to smash out a window and make it down to the street. Then I figured that the necessary gear would take up as much room as a desk. :innocent:

As crazy as it seems, I'd love to know if the lightest amsteel (unlike paracord) could be safely used to rappell in an emergency. From the looks of what's available today, all the gear for even a 1,000' descent could be easily carried in a small duffel bag. I'd love to try doing it. Heck, my kids are all grown up now. :innocent:

EDIT: This pic is a lot closer to the belts we used back then. Just add three buckles and heavy rings.

http://www.edarley.com/cat_img/J922_800.jpg

[crashdive123]

hey chrashdive is it true that each inch of your wrist is a foot of cord with a cobra stitch?

I had not heard of that formula before. It may be right, but sounds just a tad short to me. I just measured one that I thought I had 10 feet of paracord in (can't be 100% sure) and it is 9 inches in length.

[survivalpro#4]

ok cause i just made one and i got 1 whole foot of extra witch is a waste so i wandered in it ever worked for you

[Ken]

Ken,

While you were typing, I've been checking out the "working load" specs on this cord, and trying to establish its heat resistant properties. I know the working load numbers on my BlueWater 11MM static rapelling rope and my 9MM Dynamic climbing rope - which of course are a lot thicker, made with different materials, and have an outside sheath.

The Amsteel rope's purposes listed do not include climbing/repelling/rescue work - rather more in line with rigging sail boats, towing things, using in winches like you have on your truck - but does not (that I have found) include functions that involve lifting people. The one thing that I do know is that it is slippery and may not hold knots very well - which could make it extremely dangerous for anykind of people purposes.

Still, I'm excited to find something thinner and stronger than paracord which means I could pack a lot because it is light enough to float. I now see that the 1/8th inch Amsteel Blue is rated at 2,500 lbs test (1/8th like paracord) - while the thinner 7/64 is 1,600 lbs. Still don't know the working loads. I would love to have some good light rope for emergency purposes - but need to do more investigation. Since no one will tell me which color to get, I'm going to order some in black and some in bright orange.

P.S. - I have that (or similar) safety belt w/buckle but as I'm sure you know, they aren't designed for purposely rapelling and I won't purposely use it for such - they can be a real back breaker.

NOTE: I do not find this rope listed as designed or suitable for climbing, rappeling, rescue, or anything involving supporting people. I do not recommend anyone using any rope for such that isn't specifically designed for it.


Thanks, my friend! I guess I'll have to wait until they come out with something for that purpose. Or until I'm diagnosed as terminal. :innocent:

Rep on the way! EDIT: Hey, now you've got 3 green thingies! :clap:

[Rick]

Survivalpro - That formula is not correct. It will not only depend on the stitch used but you also have to calculate in the type of connectors on the end (buckle, carabiner, etc.)

sff - I couldn't agree with you more. Climbing rope is fine-tuned for the optimum combination of weight, number of falls, impact force, handling and durability. It must provide a soft catch and be durable, while not having too much elongation. Folks should only use climbing rope if they intend to climb.

[Ken]

One point of clarification here. I was always incredibly cautious with the rope we used. When we used manilla rope for rappelling, back in the day, we only considered it safe for for one training event. Even the best stuff was so prone to deterioration that we never ever used it for that purpose again at another point in time. We got all of our rope from the Bidden Cordage Company (formerly of East Providence, R.I.). http://www.onlinebristol.com/business-directory/industry-manufacturing/textiles-cord-rope/jj-bidden-cordage-co.-inc./view-details.html

The reason I asked the question is simple. If the properties of Amsteel lent themselves to ONE SAFE USE as rappelling rope, it would be a heck of a lot better to use it for that purpose it in an emergency than to be killed in a fire - or vaporized in a tower collapse. Quite frankly, I'd probably STILL take my chances with the rope in such a dire circumstance.

[Rick]

We used hemp rope or "horse hair" years ago when we still did tree trimming. It was good stuff. We changed over to nylon while I was still outside and it took some getting used to. The nylon would stretch forever compared to horse hair. We were working in a college town in the early '70s and one of the guys decided he'd impress a couple of girls walking down the street. He dropped out of the tree. Tightened up the rope. The rope stretched, he slapped the sidewalk and just sort of hung there a couple of feet off the ground. We laughed and reminded him that nylon stretches. He would have been okay with the horse hair.

[Ken]

Thing is, we often used the manilla rope to rappell over salt water. Can you say "rope rot?" :innocent:

The synthetic stuff did take some getting used to.

[Camp10]

The reason I asked the question is simple. If the properties of Amsteel lent themselves to ONE SAFE USE as rappelling rope, it would be a heck of a lot better to use it for that purpose it in an emergency than to be killed in a fire - or vaporized in a tower collapse. Quite frankly, I'd probably STILL take my chances with the rope in such a dire circumstance.

The rope we use for pole top rescue is just a 1/2" nylon rope..the same stuff we make our handlines with. It is not rated for human loads or overhead lifting but someone (our company or the manufacturer, not sure who) decided that it is safe for a rescue. I guess my point is, if I had to get out of someplace, like you I would try whatever rope I had at the time.

[Rick]

You bet. I'm with you guys. Any port in a storm. If it's a have to case and you know what the results are if you don't then you might as well give it a shot.

[Rick]

Later we had to start using fall harnesses when working heights (non pole - Usually aerial platform work).They had a strap much like in your pic. Only the ones we used were sewn like this one. I personally never had to use one so I don't know how well they work. I was working with a guy one day that didn't have one on. He stood up, turned around and stepped off the platform about 30 feet in the air. Forgot he was aerial.

http://www.millerfallprotection.com/images/stories/titan-fall-protection/connecting-devices/large/TK4051-Back.jpg

[Camp10]

sjj, that lanyard looks just like the ones we use. They are designed to unfold at 900 lbs of force. They also open another 4 feet (I think that is what the specs are)when they operate. This means that he will need roughly 8 feet of free fall for it to do it's job. Make sure he keeps the rope tight enough when he is working near the edge or he might hit the ground anyways.

[Alaskan Survivalist]

One of the knots I tie for braclets (or what every else you wand to use it for) "unties" quickly. The braclet on the left - cut off button knot and pull. That's it. You now have (in this case) 8 feet of paracord.

Please show me that knot. Back when I started driving truck ropes were used and the whole load could be tied with a truckers knot that could be released with one tug on the end of the rope. Why not a bracelet?

[crashdive123]

Please show me that knot. Back when I started driving truck ropes were used and the whole load could be tied with a truckers knot that could be released with one tug on the end of the rope. Why not a bracelet?

Here is a tutorial on the chain sinnet bracelets.

http://stormdrane.blogspot.com/search?q=chain+sinnet

[Rick]

Good post, Crash.

AS - You can also make a belt using a similar design. It's called a Slatt's Rescue Belt and you can google up all kinds of links.

http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-make-a-Paracord-Rescue-Belt/

You can also store a LOT of paracord by wrapping it like you would a rescue rope.

http://www.wonderhowto.com/how-to-store-rope-avoid-tangles-252098/

For smaller, tangle free pieces of paracord (like tarp tie downs) I wrap the cord in a figure 8 between my outstretched thumb and pinky. Just loop around in a figure 8 and it will never be tangled when you want to use it.

[finallyME]

Ken,

While you were typing, I've been checking out the "working load" specs on this cord, and trying to establish its heat resistant properties. I know the working load numbers on my BlueWater 11MM static rapelling rope and my 9MM Dynamic climbing rope - which of course are a lot thicker, made with different materials, and have an outside sheath.

The Amsteel rope's purposes listed do not include climbing/repelling/rescue work - rather more in line with rigging sail boats, towing things, using in winches like you have on your truck - but does not (that I have found) include functions that involve lifting people. The one thing that I do know is that it is slippery and may not hold knots very well - which could make it extremely dangerous for anykind of people purposes.

Still, I'm excited to find something thinner and stronger than paracord which means I could pack a lot because it is light enough to float. I now see that the 1/8th inch Amsteel Blue is rated at 2,500 lbs test (1/8th like paracord) - while the thinner 7/64 is 1,600 lbs. Still don't know the working loads. I would love to have some good light rope for my kits -but need to do more investigation. Since no one will tell me which color to get, I'm going to order some in black and some in bright orange.

P.S. - I have that (or similar) safety belt w/buckle but as I'm sure you know, they aren't designed for purposely rapelling and I won't purposely use it for such - they can be a real back breaker.

NOTE: I do not find this rope listed as designed or suitable for climbing, rappeling, rescue, or anything involving supporting people. I do not recommend anyone using any rope for such that isn't specifically designed for it..

The amsteel has a high tensile strength and is made from Dyneema. Here is a Wiki quote about it:

Ballistic vests can be made of UHMWPE.
Dyneema and Spectra are gel spun through a spinneret to form oriented-strand synthetic fibers of UHMWPE, which have yield strengths as high as 2.4 GPa and density as low as 0.97 kg/l (for Dyneema SK75)[6]. High strength steels have comparable yield strengths, and low carbon steels have yield strengths much lower (around 0.5 GPa). Since steel has a density approximately equal to 7.8 kg/l, this gives strength-to-weight ratios for these materials in a range from 10 to 100 times higher than for steel. Strength-to-weight ratios for Dyneema are about 40% higher than for Aramid.
UHMWPE fibers are used in armor, particularly personal armor and occasionally as vehicle armor, cut resistant gloves, bow strings, climbing equipment, fishing line, spear lines for spearguns, high-performance sails, suspension lines on sport parachutes and paragliders, rigging in yachting, kites, and kites lines for kites sports. Spectra is also used as a high-end Wakeboard line.
For personal armor, the fibers are, in general, aligned and bonded into sheets, which are then layered at various angles to give the resulting composite material strength in all directions.[7] [8] Recently-developed additions to the US Military's Interceptor body armor, designed to offer arm and leg protection, are said to utilize a form of Spectra or Dyneema fabric.[9] Dyneema provides puncture resistance to protective clothing in the sport of fencing.
Spun UHMWPE fibers excel as fishing line, as they have less stretch, are more abrasion-resistant, and are thinner than traditional monofilament line.
In climbing, cord and webbing made of combinations of UHMWPE and nylon yarns have gained popularity for their low weight and bulk, though, unlike their nylon counterparts, they exhibit very low elasticity, making them unsuitable for limiting forces in a fall. Also, low elasticity translates to low toughness. The fiber's very high lubricity leads to poor knot-holding ability, and has led to the recommendation to use the Triple fisherman's knot rather than the traditional double fisherman's knot in 6mm UHMWPE core cord to avoid a particular failure mechanism of the double fisherman's, where first the sheath fails at the knot, then the core slips through.[10][11]
Owing to its low density, ships' hawsers and cables can be made from the fibre, and float on sea water.
It is used in skis and snowboards, often in combination with carbon fiber, reinforcing the fiberglass composite material, adding stiffness and improving its flex characteristics. The UHMWPE is often used as the base layer, which contacts the snow, and includes abrasives to absorb and retain wax.
High-performance ropes for sailing and parasailing are made of UHMWPE, due to their low stretch and high strength.[12]
Dyneema was used for the 30-kilometre space tether in the ESA/Russian Young Engineers' Satellite 2 of September, 2007.
The extremely low friction coefficient of UHMWPE makes it a common topsheet for boxes in terrain parks.[citation needed]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra_high_molecular_weight_polyethylene

I should also add this from the same wiki article:

"Rock climbers may use a sling made of dyneema because of its high tensile strength to weight ratio, and rarer Prusiks composed of dyneema can also be found, though their lower melting point versus nylon makes them largely unsuitable for this job, resulting in the creation of nylon sheathed Prusiks with dyneema cores."

In other words, you might melt it with your figure 8.

[finallyME]

Because amsteel has a hard time holding knots, most of the people I know who use it, splice it. Actually, that is one of the reasons they use it. It has high strength to weight, and you can splice it.