The Moccasin Thread

[huntermj]

Well its been raining all day, and the pattern for the mocks came in the mail testerday from Hunter63. So with a lttle down time on my hands i thought i would get started making my plains indian moccasin's. I'll be updating this with pic's as i can so i dont time out before posting.

First i laid out the patterns and perfect, Hunter63 had already cut out or traced the same sizes i needed. So that was easy.

I traced out the soles on some cow leather from Tandys. somehow the picture makes it look like one is half sized. but there exact mirrer of each other. Ill do the finish cutting later, leaves me a little fudge factor for now.

[huntermj]

So im ready to mark out the buck skin for the main parts of the mocks.
In this picture you can see the patterns i need, ill be needing two of each.
Any suggustions on layout would be apprictied. I would like to know if they should be laid out with the grain or cross grain? or does it matter here. As YCC made this buck skin I would really value his opinion concerning this particular skin. But as i said all suggestions are apprecited. Thank You,

[gryffynklm]

Nice, thats a project I have wanted to do for a while.

Here is a link to some other forum thingy that is discussing making moccs in the 3RD post below the first picture pattern layout is discussed in regard to the stretch direction of the hide. I just found this so I'm still reading. Its answering some of the questions I had.

From Paleo Planet Forum thread:
Moccasins 101: How to make one-piece moccasins
Author: coogs

"Lay out your hide on a large table or on the floor. Stretch it lengthwise, widthwise and diagonally-notice the differences in the amount of stretch. There are differing thoughts regarding placement of pattern pieces and where you want the stretch to be: widthwise or lengthwise. Do NOT place your pattern on the diagonal, and do NOT use the thin flank ("armpit") leather or you will end up with sloppy ill-fitting mocs. Check your leather on both sides for thin spots, scrape marks and other holes or weak areas. Try to avoid having those areas in places of strain or wear, like on the soles."

http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/14813

[huntermj]

Thank you, just the kind of info im looking for.
The stretch on this skin is greater leanth wise, its fairly tight armpit to armpit.
Is this always true or does it varie?

[gryffynklm]

That seems to make sense, My elk hide is the same, I just checked.

[huntermj]

Yup, the tutorial shows the same.
And it makes alot of sence to me now after reading your reply and the tutorial. how a leg and foot move and which way the mock stretches.
i would want less stretch lenathwise on my foot, that would make a more secure fit. But i would want the stretcher part to go around my calf on the hightop. If i got it right. Different grain directions for different parts.
And thank you for paleoplanet, seams like good bunch of people there. Ill have to look at that site a bit more.

[crashdive123]

Cool project. Looking forward to the progress.

[your_comforting_company]

With regard to the thickness of the hide in different places, the edges around the belly area are the thinnest, with the thickest parts being the neck, down the center of the spine, and two round circles on the rump.
The skin was softened in a frame so the stretch should be pretty equal in all directions. I'm not sure which part of the pattern is which part, but guessing at it, the part that would go around your ankles, I would make from the center of the hide, just below the neck, with the part that covers the top of your foot on the center of the neck. Not sure what the piece on the lower right is, but you could probably place it on each side of the ankle part, toward the shoulders.

[huntermj]

Thanks YCC, your post helped.
I started looking at the skin thinking about thickness and streching.
I laid it all out, cut all parts. And i managed to do that without cutting myself.:innocent: Now on to the sewing. i learned some of that from my grandfarther and mother, we'll see how it goes. I wish couger women was here to help.

[hunter63]

Hmj, looking good so far.
Quite a big deal making the first cut into that hide, right?
Ran into the same thing when making Capotes, cutting into a $200 buck wool blanket..

I bet I moved around that pattern a hundred times before I just quit putting it off, over thinking it and "Just cut it out".
Karl, thank for the link, good site and a lot of question answered.

[gryffynklm]

Ya that first cut, thats stressful if its your first time making something.

[huntermj]

LOL.
Ya i laid the patterns back on a few times just to be sure.
Oh and i still have plenty left over for more projects. Definitely a possibles bag and more.

[hunter63]

I can see that the hide got a good home..........Seems this is sorta a group project, very cool!

Half the fun I got from Rendevous was making my gear and sharing with friends.

[huntermj]

After wetting the soles i made a grove 1/8" around the bottoms then made Marks 3/16" apart for stitching. Using a three sided needle i punched holes for stitching. also i cut stripes for welts in the stitching. It kinda is a group project. I'm just grateful that the people here are so willing to share there knowledge and skills.

[crashdive123]

I wish couger women was here to help.

I think she is in Detroit with Navtivedolt.

[Ted]

Looking Good!

[your_comforting_company]

Looks like you got it all to fit in the right places. I can't wait to see the finished project. I like the look of fringe, as it helps break up your pattern, but in my mind it's not as functional with fringe because that stuff hangs on all the briars and underbrush when moving through the woods. I guess it depends on if the items are for show or use, but I feel like they can still be beautiful without the fringe and other deco.

It took me about 2 weeks to cut my first hide. After the initial fear of screwing up goes away and you "Just go for it" you feel a lot better because the deal is sealed lol.
HMJ, I would like to send you a bar of my lye soap for washing your buckskin. Any soap will work, but in my mind it seems more "natural" and parallels with the skin. It seems to add a "conditioning" into it while cleaning out the dirt. I doubt it does anything special, but it doesn't have any of the perfumes or additives, and should help kill any residual scents left in. If you would PM me your address, I'll send it right out as I'm going to be sending some to QC this week also.
Keep us posted on the project!

[huntermj]

Thanks YCC, i appreciate that, Pm on the way.
I started sewing yesterday but realized the the cow hide soles were too thick. So i pulled it apart before i went too far and ordered a lighter leather for the soles from Tandy leather today. My Pepe told me "if its worth doing, its worth doing right" I still hear those words to this day. So as much as i want to finish these and ware them I'll wait till the new leather for the soles gets here and start again.

The buckskin is so soft. These will be so comfortable.

[huntermj]

on a side note, Tandy leather in Hartford, CT has been great in there customer service. I'm very impressed.

[your_comforting_company]

The frame stretching takes out a little of the "bounce" but as they acclimate to the humidity and wear, they will become more stretchy and form fitting. Buckskin really is an amazing material. After some wear they will become personal to you, not only because you made them, but in the way they fit.
Got your PM and the soap (and a few adornments) will be on it's way today. I got tied up with a skin yesterday that got stiff, and I had to rebrain and re-soften, but I'll definately get the items shipped today.
Thanks again HMJ. Your donation to the DOC will help to bless many other participants on the forum. Spreading the Love! It's a grand feeling!

[huntermj]

new leather for the soles arived just a minute ago, and more tools. Ill be able to finish the knife sheath now. and get back to the mocks.What to work on first, hmmm, my Add says both. LOL

[your_comforting_company]

Can't wait to see them finished!

[your_comforting_company]

I also started on a pair of mocs. Haven't made much progress but I work on them a little each day and this is where I'm at.
Bark tan deer skin for the soles and toe. buckskin for the top of the foot and ankle-wrap.
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/your_comforting_company/sewing/DSCN3781.jpg

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/your_comforting_company/sewing/DSCN3779.jpg

I'm having trouble figuring out the "heel and ankle" part.. using scrap cloth to figure out the pattern.

[your_comforting_company]

Here's what I came up with. I did not use any "styles" or any patterns other than my own foot and imagination. The idea is to have a wrap-top that lays with the walking direction so that it doesn't snag on brush and briars, and lays over to keep debris from falling in your shoe. I had to add an ankle strap to keep my foot from slipping out and it doubles as the "tie" that keeps it wrapped around your foot.

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/your_comforting_company/sewing/DSCN3818.jpg
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/your_comforting_company/sewing/DSCN3819.jpg

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/your_comforting_company/sewing/DSCN3839.jpg

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/your_comforting_company/sewing/DSCN3840.jpg

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/your_comforting_company/sewing/DSCN3841.jpg

The only modern tool I used was the needle. The uppers are braintan the soles and toes are bark tan, and the thread was backstrap sinew. They are very comfortable, if a little on the warm side, but I like the way I can still feel the ground beneath my feet while wearing them.

[your_comforting_company]

Oh.. the heel-and-ankle part was just a rectangle, about 6" tall and about 16" long. I just sewed it straight up on both sides after making the ankle curve and it worked just fine. Simple in design and functional.

[huntermj]

nice work!
I had switch to the garden while the sun was shining. It may snow i little the next couple of days. Tommorow night i can get back on the mocks.

[Rick]

YCC - You are a man of many talents. Nice job.