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your_comforting_company
03-31-2010, 10:17 PM
Some folks have been saying they've had difficulty in making fire by friction. I wanted to take the time to put up some pictures of the process. I will go ahead and let you know, that the crepe myrtle was still too green to work, so after 3 exhausting tries with it, I switched to my faithful yucca and willow combo for the sake of actually making fire for this instructional.

First you need to select material that's fairly straight and a good diameter. I like mine to be about as thick as my thumb. More surface area means more friction.
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/your_comforting_company/Primitive%20Skills/firemaking/DSCN3230.jpg

I like for the spindle to be long enough that I can brace my wrist just under my knee. It gets shorter of course, but shin length is good for a fresh spindle.
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/your_comforting_company/Primitive%20Skills/firemaking/DSCN3231.jpg

The ends need to be pointed. I like to put the thickest end up so that as I make the hole in the hearth, the spindle will always fit snug. You don't want sloppy spindle-to-hearth contact. It doesn't need to be perfectly straight, but close, as you can see in the second pic.
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/your_comforting_company/Primitive%20Skills/firemaking/DSCN3232.jpg
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/your_comforting_company/Primitive%20Skills/firemaking/DSCN3233.jpg

Got all that? Good. Spindle is ready. Now you gotta wax, grease, soap-up your socket rock, and prepare your hearthboard to mate with the spindle. I like to make a small indention with my notching rock, so that the pointed end will seat well. I use soap to lube my socket. Once you've picked wich end you want to use, you can't change it.
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/your_comforting_company/Primitive%20Skills/firemaking/DSCN3234.jpg

This is a good picture of the proper drilling posture. I'm not making fire yet, just seating the spindle and hearth together. You'll see that in just a minute.. let me talk about posture here since this is a good pic of it.
Take up your bow in your hand, your rock in the other and get up off your butt. You will not make fire sitting down. Get up on one knee, lean over your upright leg and pull it close to your chest. Your upright leg's foot holds your hearth in place, typically under the arch of your foot. Your wrist should be really close to your leg and the socket held firmly, but not applying a whole lot of pressure. The string is low on the spindle. My body is rigid except to breathe, and work the bow. Start slow and increase speed and pressure. I like to keep the string low on the spindle, just right across the top of my foot. If you aren't wearing shoes the string will burn you as it comes across your foot! (don't ask me how I know...)
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/your_comforting_company/Primitive%20Skills/firemaking/DSCN3235.jpg
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/your_comforting_company/Primitive%20Skills/firemaking/DSCN3236.jpg

Now your spindle and hearth are mated. It's time to cut the notch. Generally it should intrude 1/3 the way into the seat, and the width be about 1/3 the diameter of the seat. This is called the "rule of thirds"
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/your_comforting_company/Primitive%20Skills/firemaking/DSCN3238.jpg
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/your_comforting_company/Primitive%20Skills/firemaking/DSCN3241.jpg
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/your_comforting_company/Primitive%20Skills/firemaking/DSCN3246.jpg

Now you are ready to make fire! Prepare your tindle ahead of time. I'm using a sycamore seed-ball to catch my ember and dust in transfer, and dry grass for the actual fire.
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/your_comforting_company/Primitive%20Skills/firemaking/DSCN3247.jpg

Using the posture described above, start slow, and increase speed, then pressure. You'll start to see smoke in a few moments, but you don't have fire yet. The smoke has to change color. It will go from grey, to yellow-ish. When you start seeing smoke, breathe onto the dustpile. You can see my tindle in the bottom left corner, of dry grass nest, with sycamore fluff to catch the ember.
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/your_comforting_company/Primitive%20Skills/firemaking/DSCN3255.jpg
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/your_comforting_company/Primitive%20Skills/firemaking/DSCN3250.jpg

Transfer the ember and dust into the tindle, and GENTLY blow it into life. As the ember grows, you'll need to tighten the grass around it, and keep it close to the ember. Theres a technique to this and I've watched friends get an ember, only to lose it in the tindle by letting the grass stay too loose. You have to have it close to the heat for it to actually catch up. I hope that makes sense. Fire is hot, but this is not fire yet. It gets warm, but if you keep your hands below the fire, it won't burn you. As you get comfortable with the ember propagating into the tindle, raise it up and blow sideways and then UP INTO the tindle. It's a lot easier than it sounds.
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/your_comforting_company/Primitive%20Skills/firemaking/DSCN3256.jpg
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/your_comforting_company/Primitive%20Skills/firemaking/DSCN3257.jpg
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/your_comforting_company/Primitive%20Skills/firemaking/DSCN3259.jpg
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/your_comforting_company/Primitive%20Skills/firemaking/DSCN3260.jpg
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/your_comforting_company/Primitive%20Skills/firemaking/DSCN3261.jpg
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/your_comforting_company/Primitive%20Skills/firemaking/DSCN3262.jpg
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/your_comforting_company/Primitive%20Skills/firemaking/DSCN3263.jpg

Now that you have fire, you can be HAPPY, and warm!
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/your_comforting_company/Primitive%20Skills/firemaking/DSCN3265.jpg

When I take up my bow, I wrap the spindle, and immediately take up the slack with my fingers like this.
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/your_comforting_company/Primitive%20Skills/firemaking/DSCN3271.jpg

He who makes his own fire warms himself twice. I say three times, because it warms my heart as well.

Here's the whole kit. My bow doubles as a walking stick and could work as a fishing pole. Easily packable rocks, and the spindle and hearth can usually be found in the woods. Of course, it doesn't hurt to pack those too just in case it's raining.
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/your_comforting_company/Primitive%20Skills/firemaking/DSCN3266.jpg

If I missed any details, please feel free to ask. It's really a lot easier than all this sounds, but you really have to understand the setup and mechanics of the process first. Once you've got the hang of it, it's pretty easy. I think if the crepe myrtle had been dry enough, I'd have gotten it to work on the first try. I hope my effort will help some of you to obtain this skill.

crashdive123
03-31-2010, 10:33 PM
Great post - tried to give you some rep - gotta spread the love though.

welderguy
03-31-2010, 10:42 PM
Wow Thanks for that post, very informative. Thanks for taking the time to post this.

Alaskan Survivalist
03-31-2010, 10:54 PM
This should get a sticky in primative section

rwc1969
03-31-2010, 11:01 PM
You've almost inspired me to try again. Great tut.

Outside of the process, I think it's all in the materials and I just ain't found em yet.

Now that it's warming up here, maybe I can get out and give it a real go.

crashdive123
03-31-2010, 11:02 PM
This should get a sticky in primative section

Consider it stuck.

Alaskan Survivalist
03-31-2010, 11:04 PM
You've almost inspired me to try again. Great tut.

Outside of the process, I think it's all in the materials and I just ain't found em yet.

Now that it's warming up here, maybe I can get out and give it a real go.

Keep trying. We don't have any of those materials here. You'll find something that works.

your_comforting_company
04-01-2010, 07:36 AM
The trick I use for selecting materials is the thumbnail dent. If you can dent it with your thumbnail it might work. You won't know for sure till you try it, but it needs to grind into a fine powder.
cottonwood and horseweed are good examples.
I have some cotton rose put back that I've been aiming to try.. forgot all about that.
Nandina domestica spindle and tulip poplar (Liriodendron tulipifera) are fairly hard woods and I've made fire with those.
If it has a stick that's straight enough for a spindle I'll try it. I've tried several things that'll make smoke, but the powder doesn't grind fine enough to catch an ember.
I believe Ted has said that both the spindle and hearth can be the same material.
Don't use woods that have pitchy resins.. they'll just gum up and stick.
Maybe that'll help too, at least with material selections.

your_comforting_company
04-01-2010, 07:37 AM
I also recommend trying any invasive species in your area, like chinaberry and mimosa in my area.. which reminds me I should have harvested some of that over the winter.. so many woods, so little time..

crashdive123
04-01-2010, 07:58 AM
I trimmed back the chinaberry trees two weeks ago and didn't think to save any for projects. Have you had success using it?

your_comforting_company
04-01-2010, 08:03 AM
I forgot to harvest any while the trees were dormant. If I get a chance to walk the heavily infested dirt road today or this weekend, I'll be checking for dead limbs. Heck, I might even harvest some of the saplings I've seen sprouting lately. Seems a soft enough wood that it should work. I have yet to try it, but as soon as I do I'll let ya know :D

your_comforting_company
04-01-2010, 08:07 AM
I'll mention here that yesterday I drove by a stand of yuccas that were prime for flower stalks. They were in someones yard and they weren't home so I wouldn't go harvest them. There must have been 20 stalks ready.
I have about 30 put back to give away at demo's and I'll be collecting more as I spot them. Not sure how far north they grow, but they are everywhere down here.

Batch
04-03-2010, 10:27 AM
I'm gonna give this a try at camp tonight. I think I had my bow string way too tight and a longer spindle may help me some as well.

Thanks for the great post! I added some rep.

Batch
04-04-2010, 06:34 PM
I got a good ember and several smaller ones. But, I couldn't get the tinder bundle to light.

I was looking for a change in smoke and didn't see it. I was getting LOTS of smoke and I stopped and moved the fire board and there was smoke coming from the sawdust. I moved the sawdust and saw a small red ember that went out almost immediately. Getting that ember burned through that part of the board.

So, I made a new spot for the drill and when I stopped this time I had smoke coming just from one little spot on a piece of pine bark I had put under the board. I blew gently on that spot and the whole pile glowed red.

Since I had not expected to have an ember that easy. I had no tinder ready at all. So my brother and I started grabbing palm fluff and I transferred the ember. But, it just burnt through the fibers without igniting.

The ember was the size of a pink nail and it glowed with me blowing on it for quite a while.

Next try I grabbed the pine bark and it broke dropping the ember on the ground.

I haven't been able to find large dead willow limbs. So my fire board was pretty narrow and it had termite trails through it and broke easily. But, seeing that coal was bad arse!

Grabbed some more willow to work on more this week. First I am going to reread this thread. :)

All of the willow here is in water and it is thick to get to the thicker branches and none appear dead. When we were leaving the WMA today I noticed the willow in the ditches were taller and thicker than the ones in the swamps. So, I am going to just climb down and start trying to snap off branches to see if they are dry enough.

The fire board I used last night had green branches growing off of it when I took it and it worked good.

canid
04-05-2010, 12:35 AM
i use the same method for regulating the tension on my fire bow cord. it really helps. it certainly makes my fingers sore after a while though.

your_comforting_company
04-05-2010, 12:53 AM
try the dry grass. It's the best tindle I've come across. and remember to keep your tindle bunched close to your ember. something fluffy to catch your ember in the dry grass and you should be good to go. Always prepare all your materials beforehand.. you don't wanna get an ember and have nowhere to put it!
Sounds like you got the drilling technique down, now you just need to find a good tindle combo.
The color change in the smoke is pretty hard to see, but it's there. If you look at the close-up of me drilling, you'll see the smoke is grey, but the next picture the smoke is yellowish with the presence of the ember.. still kinda hard to tell, but the change is there. I wish I could show you the process in person so you could see how it all just sorta happens.

This is the stand of yucca's about 1/4 mile from my house. roadside. My oldest son and I harvested 8 more dead stalks yesterday (Saturday). Keep your eye open for stands of yucca and I'm sure you'll find some. Seems you find it everywhere when you AREN'T lookin for it lol.
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/your_comforting_company/plants/DSCN3316.jpg

your_comforting_company
04-05-2010, 12:59 AM
oh, yeah.. you can age and rot any wood you like, but it takes time.. I usually debark it and toss it on the dirt for it to weather for a few weeks in the sun and rain.
another note, my ember is usually MUCH smaller than a pinky nail.. more like a pencil lead.
If it's so rotten it has termites in it, then it might be a little too dead lol.

remember the fingernail dent trick. if the wood is soft enough to dent with your thumbnail then it'll probably be good for this method. I've used harder woods, like poplar for my hearth, but for a beginner I recommend stuff a little softer. I'll try to take some pictures of the dent trick to add to the thread tomorrow.

Batch
04-05-2010, 09:11 PM
The pinky size ember was just a pin prick of smoke out of the willow dust. But, it turned a lot of that dust glowing red ember when I blew on it. That is what got pinky nail size.

your_comforting_company
04-05-2010, 09:39 PM
aah. cool! sounds like you are making progress. You'll get it going. I'm confident in you. If you can get the ember, that's the hardest part. :D
Good Job!

Aurelius95
04-05-2010, 10:45 PM
I have a crepe myrtle tree in my yard that I cut back this winter. The branches are in the back yard. You use the crepe myrtle for the spindle?

your_comforting_company
04-06-2010, 07:39 AM
Yes, Aurelius, I use them for the spindle. I don't have any branches large enough to try for the hearthboard yet. If you have any success using crepe myrtle please let us know. The ones that have weathered in your back yard over winter should be great for firemaking.
I eagerly await your results :D

Ted
04-06-2010, 10:41 PM
Hey Batch, try getting some dry leaves and/or grass and rub it between your hands. You should have a lot of fibers left in your hands. Do this over something to also collect the dust that comes off the fibers. I do this till I get a nice handfull of fibers and form them into a "nest" at least 3 inches in diamiter, and 3 inches thick. Now put the nest in a bigger nest of dry grass,about 6 inches, in diamiter and 6 inches thick. Now put the dust in the nest. When you get an ember put it on the pile of dust. Your ember will easly catch the dust! While blowing keep pushing the nest tighter and blowing harder till it burst into flame. It will burst! Don't have your face too close or you will singe your face!

your_comforting_company
04-06-2010, 10:45 PM
I hadn't thought of collecting the dust of crumbled leaves. Nice tip Ted. I remember before you said you could use the same wood for both spindle and hearth. Was that linden you were using? I'm interested in hearing some of the other woods you've had success with. I picked up a piece of dead chinaberry today and have cured out a piece of Cotton Rose to try too.
Good info as always Ted. Thanks bro!

Ted
04-06-2010, 10:59 PM
I've used maple for the whole deal! Socket too! Only grease I've ever used was off the sides of own greasy nose!...LOL!
The fibers left from rubbing leaves, and putting the dust in it works great! Thats how I taught the boys to make a fire with a magnyfing glass! Instead of putting a ember in a nest you make a ember in a nest!

Maple is the only one I know for sure what it was! I've made quite a few without knowing what the hell it was! If the spinlde got eaten up I'd try another. If the fire boad burned through I'd just try another! That was before I read about the thumbnail trick, and as long as the wood passes the thumbnail test it dosn't seem to matter what the wood is!

your_comforting_company
04-11-2010, 11:08 AM
An update for those interested.. I know crash asked about this particularly.. so here's the answer!

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/your_comforting_company/Primitive%20Skills/firemaking/DSCN3458.jpg
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/your_comforting_company/Primitive%20Skills/firemaking/DSCN3460.jpg

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/your_comforting_company/Primitive%20Skills/firemaking/DSCN3451.jpg
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/your_comforting_company/Primitive%20Skills/firemaking/DSCN3453.jpg

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/your_comforting_company/Primitive%20Skills/firemaking/DSCN3466.jpg
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/your_comforting_company/Primitive%20Skills/firemaking/DSCN3468.jpg

The fingernail dent test indicated it was a slightly harder wood, so I went with he tulip hearth for starters, but it didn't work, and after about 30 minutes and several tries, I went to a slightly softer willow hearth (I have a lot of it stashed) and got fire. Judging by the way it shreds itself, I would think this is one of the woods that the whole kit could be made of, bow, hearth, and spindle. Exhausting, but fun.

in case you can't read my sloppy handwriting, it's Chinaberry.

crashdive123
04-11-2010, 02:07 PM
Thanks for the update.

SurvivalFaith
04-13-2010, 06:29 AM
get fire from the hard work is pride.

markhdteck
04-20-2010, 11:00 PM
I'm ready to try again!.... i got a spark twice,fire 1 time awhile back,sure had to work for it..:)...i used poplar wood for the hearthboard and spindle,that i found on the ground,and the tinder was fibers from the underside of the bark of rotten oak and rotten poplar and leaves rolled in my hand to make into the bird nest.
I'm going to try cedar this time,maybe it'll work better..:cool:

your_comforting_company
04-20-2010, 11:32 PM
I didn't have much success using tulip poplar for both pieces, swamprat. I use it for a hearthboard on harder spindles, like with nandina. I think the poplar was just too tight-grained or something.

Swamprat1
06-09-2010, 09:52 AM
thanks for the great tutorial. I have been trying to master this for awhile now. But your pics show what I am doing wrong. Will give it a another go this weekend.
also, i had heard somewhere that cattail stalks work for a spindle, anyone else here have any experience?

crashdive123
06-09-2010, 01:51 PM
thanks for the great tutorial. I have been trying to master this for awhile now. But your pics show what I am doing wrong. Will give it a another go this weekend.
also, i had heard somewhere that cattail stalks work for a spindle, anyone else here have any experience?

I haven't tried cattail stalks yet - actually my success rate has been pretty poor. I am going to give it some more effort - I just hate it when inanimate objects kick my butt.

your_comforting_company
06-10-2010, 06:15 AM
In my experience, cattail stalks are too brittle to handle the fire-bow. I haven't tried it for a hand drill yet, but it certainly can't take the overhand pressure of the fire-bow.
Let me know how you fare and if you have any more questions!

justin_baker
06-10-2010, 11:36 PM
How the heck do you make the little depression for your handhold? (Using wood i mean)

your_comforting_company
06-11-2010, 06:31 AM
I used a hard cobble (like large pea gravel, I don't know much about rocks, but it's the kind you find in driveways and flowerbeds) to peck away at the center of a much softer limestone type rock. I'll try to remember to snap a picture of my socket-rock so you can see where it was pecked out. Basically you just keep tapping in the same spot with your pecking stone till the hole is the size you like it. It takes time, but not a lot of energy.
Look for softer limestone type rocks, or a nice piece of hardwood like a pine knot, and you can just "drill" it out with another rock or your knife.

crashdive123
06-11-2010, 06:31 AM
If you don't have a knife - with a rock.

justin_baker
06-12-2010, 12:15 AM
Either way i am going to try it this summer. Pretty much all of these trees around here are hard or extremely hard(the softest wood around is douglas fir which can actually get pretty darn hard and its pretty resiny), so it might not be too easy. Mabeye there are softer woods around, there is some ash(is that soft or hard?) and a couple other trees around a creek(there tends to be a greater variety and some rarer trees around rippearian zones) that i frequent but its right next to a jogging trail and i dont want people to freak out or have problems with the authorities. The yuppies would think that i am intentionally hurting a poor tree when i would really be just sawing off a dead limb.

your_comforting_company
06-12-2010, 09:02 AM
For the socket, you really want a hard wood, and you want to keep it greased. I use soap for lube, but I've heard of others using all sorts of things. Good Luck and let us know how it goes!

crashdive123
06-12-2010, 01:48 PM
Because of the intense sun, I usually have a tube of chapstick. It can be used to lubricat the socket of your bow drill.

Swamprat1
06-15-2010, 09:26 AM
I haven't tried cattail stalks yet - actually my success rate has been pretty poor. I am going to give it some more effort - I just hate it when inanimate objects kick my butt.

I know what you mean crash. All I've managed to do is get the wood to hot to touch. From the video I know that part of my problem is having the bow to high on the spindle. Need to try lubing the socket to. May try to work on it this weekend. I've got a campout in a couple weeks and would like to be able to showoff a bit :D

crimescene450
06-29-2010, 03:28 PM
So im in ohio now, where i have much more means to try alot of primitive things

so the first thing i decided to try is a firebow

im having problems though (obviously)

first off, ill shows you my stuff, just to make sure if there any problems with it

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/6302/phonepics018.jpg

heres my base? is that what its called?
im not sure what kind of wood it is

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/4725/phonepics024.jpg

heres my spindle, made of sugar maple
does maple work? and is this straight enough? should i completely debark it? or does it not matter?

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/42/phonepics022.jpg

heres my point (i have no clue why this pic is so big)
is this good at all?

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/8533/phonepics020.jpg

im not sure if this is a good handhold. its a shell we had lying around
what are some other good handholds?


http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/6601/phonepics026.jpg

heres my bow
is this curvey enough?





now my problems:

my main problem is that the spindle keeps poppping out
i hear this is because of bad form. but it is possible that the handhold is allso bad? there really isnt a divot in the shell.

a second problem is my string keeps stretching. im not sure what to do about that though

on a couple of tries i had smoke, so i stopped but there was no ember

my residue is light to dark brown and really fine

crimescene450
06-29-2010, 03:38 PM
oh and also, is cotton ball a good starter tinder?

and also, is it easier to put tinder under the board, or transfer the coal?

crashdive123
06-29-2010, 08:13 PM
Cotton can be used, but if you are going to all of the trouble to use a primitive method for starting a fire...............just sayin'.

Transfer the coal.

Batch
06-29-2010, 08:33 PM
So im in ohio now, where i have much more means to try alot of primitive things

so the first thing i decided to try is a firebow

im having problems though (obviously)

first off, ill shows you my stuff, just to make sure if there any problems with it

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/6302/phonepics018.jpg

heres my base? is that what its called?
im not sure what kind of wood it is

Your fire board or some folks say hearth is the base. So, I wouldn't say you were wrong. If the wood you are using doesn't put off a lot of saw dust it is too hard.

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/4725/phonepics024.jpg


heres my spindle, made of sugar maple
does maple work? and is this straight enough? should i completely debark it? or does it not matter?

I don't know many woods. But, there is a post where good woods were posted on this site. It definitely matters what woods you use.

http://survivalinstructor.blogspot.com/2006/08/bow-drill-woods.html

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/42/phonepics022.jpg


heres my point (i have no clue why this pic is so big)
is this good at all?

I use a blunt end on the base of the drill and a pointed end on the hand piece.

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/8533/phonepics020.jpg

im not sure if this is a good handhold. its a shell we had lying around
what are some other good handholds?


http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/6601/phonepics026.jpg


heres my bow
is this curvey enough?

I'd tighten the string and make sure your are able to maintain zero slippage.





now my problems:

my main problem is that the spindle keeps poppping out
i hear this is because of bad form. but it is possible that the handhold is allso bad? there really isnt a divot in the shell.

a second problem is my string keeps stretching. im not sure what to do about that though

on a couple of tries i had smoke, so i stopped but there was no ember

my residue is light to dark brown and really fine[/QUOTE]

Your spindle is popping out because the notch is to small and close to the edge. At least that has been my experience. Dark brown saw dust and smoke after you stop sawing means you got a coal. Lightly "lightly" blow on the smoke spot and the dust will grow an ember.

At least that has been my experience.

I would like to say lightly again and some times just leave it be if there is a breeze.

I'm still trying to mark it off as a skill and can't. I have made fire with it. But, I can't yet do it every time! :sneaky2:

justin_baker
06-29-2010, 08:38 PM
I still have no idea what wood im gonna use. There is nothing around here that immediatley jumps out as the perfect wood. Most of the stuff around is hard as hell.

crimescene450
06-29-2010, 10:27 PM
I still have no idea what wood im gonna use. There is nothing around here that immediatley jumps out as the perfect wood. Most of the stuff around is hard as hell.


yeah i know, thats why i waited to go to my dads house in ohio

so much more resourses


the good news it, its super dry in CA. and when i start flint fires, i find the seeds of the grass (the kind that grows on the hills, idk what its called) works very well and catches the spark

so if i were to try a friction fire there (which i will if i get it down here first) id use dried grass seeds asa tinder

if maple works for me, then maybe bigleaf maple will work for you






I'd tighten the string and make sure your are able to maintain zero slippage.




actually i almost think that might be the problem

when the spindle is in it, it is super tight and always wants to escape, which might be why it
pops out


Cotton can be used, but if you are going to all of the trouble to use a primitive method for starting a fire...............just sayin'.

Transfer the coal.

yeah good point
there doesnt seem to be much tinder around here
cuz its been storming for the past 10 days
would fine bark shavings work?

and how does one transfer a coal?
a leaf or soemthing?

your_comforting_company
06-30-2010, 08:06 AM
I'm going to try to address the issues here.

Crimescene450:
Your notch is too wide. remember the rule of thirds: notch width is 1/3 the diameter of the spindle; notch depth is about 1/3 INTO the divot. The "base" is called several things, hearth, hearthboard, fireboard... It's a technicality so call it what you want to. We'll know what you're talking about :D
Crown molding is most often birch or fir. Make sure it isn't very resinous. If you see any sap drippings on it, it's no good.
I haven't tried sugar maple. your spindle doesn't have to be perfectly straight, but it doesn't need a big hook in it either. A little wobble is acceptable, a lot of wobble will make the spindle pop out of the divot. The bark makes no difference and you can leave it on. The pointy tip will eventually flatten with use. I don't put a very long tip on mine at all.. just enough to seat into the hearthboard. You want as much surface contact between the hearth and spindle as possible. Not just the 1/4" on the very tip, but the whole 1" thick spindle end (or however thick it is).
As long as your socket (handhold) is smooth enough and allows the spindle to spin freely, it'll work fine. I've used lighter knots before, but I really prefer my nice limestone rock for it's weight and the way it fits my hand.
I don't think your bow has enough curve, but I've seen (on the net) folks using bows that were almost straight. I guess you use what you can find, but I'd look for one that is a bit more curved. As long as you can get a good long spin in one direction, that's all that really matters. Look at my bow in the OP.
the spindle popping out of the socket is pretty common and I still do it from time to time. I have to agree that it is bad form MOST OF THE TIME, but the socket also needs a good seat for the spindle to ride in and it needs to be greased with something so there is no friction on that end of the spindle. For now, focus on form and getting a new socket.

DON'T STOP JUST BECAUSE YOU SEE SMOKE! Often you are just barely reaching the ignition temperature when you start to see smoke and you have to get it just above that temperature to actually kick an ember out. When I see smoke, I usually keep spinning for another minute or so. The smoke will change from grey to yellow-ish. The yellow tint is the indication that something is burning and you have an ember. It still takes me about 3 minutes as a norm to get an ember. typically it takes 5 minutes to hold fire in my hands. When experimenting with different woods, It takes as long as it takes to work out the quirks.

string stretch is going to be a problem. you need better cordage. Also, if your string is too tight, it will make the spindle want to pop out. I leave slack in my bowstring and take up the slack with my fingers when I take up the bow. Reading your latest post, I would think the pop-out is on account of the string being too tight and the socket not "fitting" your hand and the spindle properly. Please refer to (and reread) the OP. I think you missed a few minor details (or maybe I didn't cover them). Sounds like your dust (really fine) is a good wood, so try changing the other things mentioned above first, and if all else fails, get yourself some yucca stalks.
I use a leaf under my hearth and transfer my coal and dustpile into my tindle which usually contains some ingredient similar to a cotton ball. I prefer thistle or dandelion (or similar fluffy stuff) fluff as it catches most of the dust and helps the ember propagate into the tindle.

Maybe I answered all the questions lol. Hope that helps!

crimescene450
06-30-2010, 11:56 AM
ycc- thanks, im going to make a new bow, out of green wood, so it bends today. and im gonna try and get a new handheld.

ill try this later today, and let all you guys know how it goes.

crimescene450
06-30-2010, 02:34 PM
so i made a new bow today, and its alot better (more curvy)

i also made a new handhold out of a piece of pine, lubed with somekind of cedar-looking plant

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/7949/phonepics004.jpg

i also managed to carve out a rock (sandstone) handhold, but it doesnt seem to work as well.

http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/9742/phonepics010.jpg

now my end is starting to get pretty blunt tipped. should i sharpen it to a point again?

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/6743/phonepics006.jpg

my handhold end is also getting pretty blunt now, should the handhold end be pointier?

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/1376/phonepics008.jpg



my main problem now, is the bow keeps locking up. the string is crossing over the other string and locking it up.. is there a way to noit have this happen?


also, i did have one good attempt this morning, i had a ton of white smoke, so i kept going, but then the spindle popped and everything went flying..

every attempt after that had the string lock up. and i got tired and frustrated

your_comforting_company
07-01-2010, 09:45 AM
I like to hold my bow at a slight angle.. the aft end (away from my bow-hand) usually rubs the ground, while the fore-end (the end you hold) is about 3-4 inches above the ground. Pay attention to which way you wrap your spindle so that the bow angle matches the spindle wrap. I have done a backwards wrap in this example, but it works great for me to eliminate slippage (but I have mastered the mechanics). Keep your wrap low on the spindle. That seems to help me with pop-outs. I think your problem here is more mechanical than technical and I'm sure you'll have fire as soon as you work out all the mechanics.
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/your_comforting_company/Primitive%20Skills/firemaking/DSCN3236.jpg
I only sharpen my spindle on the hot end when making a new divot and it grinds down pretty quickly to make a matched seat. Also of note, is that your second divot has a much better notch IMO.
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/your_comforting_company/Primitive%20Skills/firemaking/DSCN3269.jpg
Notice how "blunt" my hot end is (the end toward me) and the direction of the wrap. I'm right-handed and I like my spindle on the outside of the string (closer to me)... You may want to wrap yours backwards from mine so that the string doesn't cross over itself...
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/your_comforting_company/Primitive%20Skills/firemaking/DSCN3271.jpg
and how I take up the slack with my fingers when I take up the bow.

If you got lots of white smoke, you are well on your way. Looks like you are getting VERY close to making fire, now it's just a matter of getting the mechanics down. I'm confident you will make fire soon. If you dont' get a picture of anything else, I want to see the smile on your face when you finally do make fire!

Hope that helps! Keep me updated on your progress. All these problems being addressed will help someone reading this thread in the future.

crimescene450
07-03-2010, 05:57 PM
I am still not getting this! GRR.

although my technique is improving. i learned to do the hold the string tight thing, and im alot better at keeping it level.

Im starting to think its my fireboard now, the board, (if you noticed) is some kinda fancy base board for walls. and i think it might have something in it.

i get smoke every time mow, but it never turns yellow, and i usually just get tired.

heres my dust with my fancy board

http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/3769/phonepics046.jpg

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/6423/phonepics048.jpg


i made a new fireboard. I think its cottonwood now, but im not sure, its been in our log pile for a few years, so its pretty dry.


heres my dust from that

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/8624/phonepics050.jpg

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/9434/phonepics052.jpg


so far ive gone through 4 strings, 2 bows, 2 boards, 4 handholds, and still using my 1st spindle.

is my dust good? and also, if i get a coal. will i actually be able to see a glow?

rwc1969
07-03-2010, 08:57 PM
I'm absolutely clueless on this, but that last pics looks like your dust is brown and maybe not getting quite hot enough.

My arms are still healing from my attemt at this last winter. Good luck
!

crimescene450
07-03-2010, 11:07 PM
I'm absolutely clueless on this, but that last pics looks like your dust is brown and maybe not getting quite hot enough.

My arms are still healing from my attemt at this last winter. Good luck
!


yeah. im getting quite a workout from this
haha

one time i was going on for like 10 mins, trying different pressures, speeds, angles, etc...


my dad decided to be funny and made a spindle drill bit and came out with a drill
haha

unfortunately he didnt know not to use pine, so it didnt work. lol

your_comforting_company
07-04-2010, 11:07 AM
I think the dust looks good enough.
At first you won't see a glow, just a wisp of yellow smoke. A few posts back I pointed out that your hearth being crown molding meant that it was probably fir (post 46). The new ?cottonwood? one looks better for grain.
Remember it takes a pretty good pile of dust for the ember to nestle in. Usually the dustpile has to get high enough to fill the notch in the hearth THEN the friction actually has something to react with. In this case, more is better.
I wish I could be there to watch as you spin and maybe we could figure out why it's not working. Make sure you have enough dust to actually catch. The ember will be buried in there and will take a few gentle breaths to grow into an ember you can see. Do you have yucca growing there? It is probably my favorite spindle material and it grows literally everywhere around here.
If you have the mechanics down, you're getting closer. Keep trying. I'm confident you'll get it!

crimescene450
07-04-2010, 11:47 AM
I wish I could be there to watch as you spin and maybe we could figure out why it's not working....... Do you have yucca growing there?


nope, no yucca.


i read that birch makes a good spindle, so im gonna try that today


ill film my attempt, so you can see my form

crimescene450
07-04-2010, 05:00 PM
I got alot of smoke this time. Im not sure if youll be able to see it, but its there.

and my pile smoked for like 5 seconds afterwards.. but went out


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWgDGEcov3E

btw, my birch spindle literly crumbled under pressure, so i stuck with the maple

your_comforting_company
07-05-2010, 08:45 AM
It looked to me like you had an ember at about 1:30 into that video. Your form was pretty good. After you've had the smoke plume for a few seconds, try increasing your pressure ever so slightly, and work the bow a little faster. Every time it stops spinning, your dustpile cools off just slightly. you had a nice dustpile and the texture looked fine enough. I've used some woods that are pretty coarse (the dust) and it still worked.
Try using a last burst of speed and pressure. You really should have had an ember with that attempt. The notch in your hearth didn't look wide enough to me, and I never dump my dustpile on the ground. That dustpile is like gold to the primitive firemaker. Most of the work goes into getting the dustpile high enough to reach the bottom of the spindle (which heats up enough to catch the dust nearest it). If you hadn't dumped your dustpile, your next attempt would have been "primed" and you would have saved about half the spinning time.
Have all your materials prepared also. When you think you have an ember, it should have your undivided attention. You are dealing with an ember that starts off the size of a few molecules and grows. It is like nursing a child, and you really have to nurture it for a few seconds 'till it grows big enough to sustain itself. Don't look away until the ember is going.
I'm still not completely sure why it isn't working.
Hopefully these few tweaks will get you going. It looks to me like you are VERY close and I really thought you had an ember in the video.
Nice video by the way!

crimescene450
07-05-2010, 12:45 PM
I never dump my dustpile on the ground. That dustpile is like gold to the primitive firemaker. Most of the work goes into getting the dustpile high enough to reach the bottom of the spindle (which heats up enough to catch the dust nearest it). If you hadn't dumped your dustpile, your next attempt would have been "primed" and you would have saved about half the spinning time.



So if i save the powder, (even if its cold) i can just put it in my notch and start spinning?

jbtusa
07-10-2010, 08:43 PM
Question: I have learned to get the ember going on a regular basis. The problem is that the ember keeps going out on me before I can transfer it to the tinder nest. I am using a cottonwood spindle and a cottonwood or cedar fireboard. I get lots of dirty yellow smoke followed by a wisp of smoke in the notch, but the ember keeps going out on me. What am I doing wrong?

crimescene450
07-10-2010, 09:44 PM
^ i think its because your coal isnt packed enough and has nothing to keep it burning

but dont quote me on that because im just as much of a noob at this as you probably are.

Batch
07-10-2010, 10:06 PM
My daughter had not seen me do this yet. I warn you I have perma-socks from wearing boots with shorts. LOL

Anyhow, I made the fire board real quick from willow. Used my existing bow and drill. Real bad form with my wrist that far from my knee and I angle the drill a lot. I have a reason for that, but, if you don't then avoid doing that.

Also I get all that slippage on the string. My drill doesn't need to be round and my string is a little too slack. Though, I think the dril being to round is the bigger problem for me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8qivbjWmQs

crashdive123
07-10-2010, 10:27 PM
Well done. I have the same socks BTW.

your_comforting_company
07-11-2010, 07:25 AM
Batch got it!! That is awesome!

One thing I might suggest to help get the flame a little faster: As you start blowing the ember into the tindle, use your hands to compact the tindle around the ember. The closer your ember is to the stuff in the nest, the quicker it'll catch fire.
2 and a half minutes is remarkable! Great job Batch!

For jbtusa.. make sure you knock the ember out of the hearth notch pretty quickly or smoke and close quarters will smother the ember rather than letting it grow. It's hard to troubleshoot this sort of thing across the internet. It sounds like it's getting smothered, but I can't say for sure. If you can get an ember on demand, keep doing it until you figure out how to get it out of the board alive.

Crimescene and jbtusa, you guys are very close to success. Don't give up!! If batch and I can do it, I know you guys can too!!

Batch
07-11-2010, 10:53 AM
Yeah, I have to work on getting the tinder to light faster. I actually thought it wasn't going to light for a second or two.

I haven't done this since I posted about it last because it has been real hot and humid. I was wondering if the humidity would prevent the tinder from lighting.

Anyhow I am going to practice more often and I'll try and get a video with better form and some socks and shoes on. It is obvious from my tan lines I ain't no Cody Lundin. LOL

I like four legged, fur bearing animals. But, then again everyone has to have a fetish, no? :innocent::blushing:

your_comforting_company
07-12-2010, 06:45 AM
hmm.. last I checked fish don't have legs and I eat them all the time. I'm with Cody on the whole "don't eat snakes" thing. birds only have 2 legs and we eat them too.

I think at the end of the day, you'll either go to bed hungry, or build a fire and cook what you have at your disposal. When it comes to going to bed hungry, I find that my preconceptions and "being picky" go right out the window.

The reason I point out tightening up the nest around the ember, I've watched more than one friend do all the work of spinning an ember, I mean a good ember, only to lose the fire due to the nest being too loose to catch. I know it gets hot and I've gotten blisters on more than one occasion, but a little pain on the end of my finger is minor next to hunger pangs or eating raw meat (or drinking fetid water through a cigarette butt straw, that's pretty desperate!).

I hope my comments don't get the thread off track. I have successfully taught a few guys (and one girl) how to spin fire with a bow-drill in a person-to-person scenario. It's much harder when theres a continent separating us! The fact that you can make fire is outstanding, whether it takes 2 minutes or 10. Just thought I'd reiterate the importance of a well-made tindle.

Rick
07-12-2010, 09:01 AM
Great job!! Kudos to the camera operator!!!

Batch
07-12-2010, 09:10 PM
hmm.. last I checked fish don't have legs and I eat them all the time. I'm with Cody on the whole "don't eat snakes" thing. birds only have 2 legs and we eat them too.

I think at the end of the day, you'll either go to bed hungry, or build a fire and cook what you have at your disposal. When it comes to going to bed hungry, I find that my preconceptions and "being picky" go right out the window.

The reason I point out tightening up the nest around the ember, I've watched more than one friend do all the work of spinning an ember, I mean a good ember, only to lose the fire due to the nest being too loose to catch. I know it gets hot and I've gotten blisters on more than one occasion, but a little pain on the end of my finger is minor next to hunger pangs or eating raw meat (or drinking fetid water through a cigarette butt straw, that's pretty desperate!).

I hope my comments don't get the thread off track. I have successfully taught a few guys (and one girl) how to spin fire with a bow-drill in a person-to-person scenario. It's much harder when theres a continent separating us! The fact that you can make fire is outstanding, whether it takes 2 minutes or 10. Just thought I'd reiterate the importance of a well-made tindle.

Bro, your posts do nothing but help!

I make the Cody and Dave jokes about my socks and the four legged animals just for fun. But, you definitely help with your posts.

Even the chest pumping and stuff is a joke for me like when Tom Hanks made fire on the island in Castaway. LOL

Rick,

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/bigcypress/CIMG4030.jpg

Camera girl (oldest daughter) is in the foreground holding the bait. Youngest daughter is behind her. Baits name is Paco... :online2long:

your_comforting_company
07-21-2010, 03:53 PM
I have a funny story, and probably an outragous opinion on this...

I'm helping a contractor for a few days. apparently his helper quit and since I wasn't roofing this week, and he needed a hand...
I was telling him about all the primitive stuff I do, and after work, showed a few arrowheads, and tanned animals, and mentioned I could make fire with sticks. He said "you gotta be sh......in me" and laughed. I smiled and said "no really, I can have fire in my hands in less than two minutes!"
Long story short.. I tried 4 times to make fire and FAILED MISERABLY. I was pouring sweat, out of breath, and humiliated.
We laughed about it and made a few "gasoline and a match" jokes, and he left.

I came inside, read the boards, which took 10 or 15 minutes, and still feeling defeated, yet having made fire by this method at least a hundred times by now... Tried again.
hahahahhahahaha (it's okay if you laugh at me too)
I had fire in a minute and a half again..

If you're showing off, prepare to be humiliated.
If you're doing it for yourself, you may succeed.
Immisee frowns on the proud.
at least that's my theory.

sorry for such a long boring story, but this went down in the last... I dunno 45 minutes and I needed to cool off after that last round. hahaha!

I don't know why it didn't work.. I didn't change a single thing on the fifth try. same divot, notch, spindle, platform, tindle... everything was the same.. even the patch of ground I was using. I know it sounds crazy, but it wouldn't work because I was trying to impress someone with it. When I tried the last time, there were no witnesses but me.
Maybe this makes me officially nutty? I don't know but I sure as heck couldn't make fire while he was watching!

your_comforting_company
07-21-2010, 04:00 PM
which begs the question...

How are you other guys faring? Any success yet with friction fire?
(crimescene and jb in particular)
Hey batch, have you tried it in the humidity? that presents a whole new challenge! Don't let the sweat dripping off your nose fall on the ember and all!! DOH!

Batch
07-21-2010, 07:38 PM
I know what you mean about showing off. I had a cook out last weekend and wanted to light the charcoal chimney with the bow drill. Lots of folks watching and I said before I started that the drill had drifted the hole so the notch was off.

I sawed a bit and got plenty of smoke and then lust made a new start and notch. Then I got fire really quickly.

You can see the drift I was talking about and the second notched area in this photo.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/bigcypress/P7210004.jpg

your_comforting_company
07-22-2010, 06:24 AM
A bit off topic (sorry!) but what is that tree on the right side of the pic?

I find that drift is often caused by the spindle not being straight. As it wobbles around, it kinda finds a place to fit. Glad to know you are still bow-drilling for your own edification. When you light the grill like this, it adds a certain degree of satisfaction to the meal.
Great job batch!!

crashdive123
07-22-2010, 07:06 AM
Looks like an avacado tree.

Aurelius95
07-22-2010, 02:22 PM
Looks like an avacado tree.

A Giant avocado tree!

Batch
07-22-2010, 09:23 PM
Yes, that is an avocado and then coconut palm behind that.

your_comforting_company
07-22-2010, 11:03 PM
hmmm... I wonder if you can make fire with avocado limbs? We've had discussion before about palms being good tinder too. Quite a few resources right there in your back yard!
I don't think I've ever seen one quite that big. neat. Is that in your back yard?

Batch
07-23-2010, 05:47 PM
Yeah, it is in my backyard.

I never even thought about trying to make a fire with avocado wood. Though I did think about grinding up some coconut and getting the oil and burning that in a lantern. with all of the fat in avocados, I wonder how easy it would be to use a fuel. I have used the lives as part of my tinder bundle. Along with dried grass and palm fluff.

I have taken to using the green avocado leaves to catch my coal when bow drilling. It actually seems to work better than the cardboard.

The dried palm limbs from the coconut tree burn pretty good.

your_comforting_company
07-29-2010, 01:39 AM
I have a crepe myrtle tree in my yard that I cut back this winter. The branches are in the back yard. You use the crepe myrtle for the spindle?

I got crepe myrtle to work last night.
I tried to put the photos in a series thing, but I couldn't figure it out, so I apologize for the shabby job on that. I was pretty tired after doing it too so I also aplogize for the blurriness.

I used my tulip poplar hearth. Needs to be a good hard hearth. The crepe myrtle required more pressure than yucca, and thus a tighter string, so it took me one good try to figure out the mechanics of the materials. Second try with a non-green limb worked!
This is the spindle that has been aging in the shed since the original post. I have some more out in the weather that I will try soon.

Thought you might like to know there is some use for those dreadful things besides looking pretty.

Notice how I start off with the standard loose "bird nest" in pic 2. Once I get a good heart in it, in photo 3, I tighten it up in 4, while still blowing on it, and you see the heart growing in photo 5 as I continue to tighten it. Photo 6 is just a few seconds after 5 and is in flames!
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg184/your_comforting_company/Primitive%20Skills/firemaking/DSCN4719-2.jpg

welderguy
08-01-2010, 12:27 PM
Ive been trying for 3 days now and still haven't got a fire going by this method Ive gotten a little smoke but thats about it, Maybe its the wood I'm using, I have cedar, oak , and a pear tree, I've tried all three with no luck yet. after rereading this thread I'm thinking maybe I'm using too green of a wood. so after a cartoon break its back outside for me and my little buddy to try again.

BushedOut
08-01-2010, 12:57 PM
Thank you for sharing this. It's great to see an explanation with detailed photographs. I like the idea of carrying the bow as a walking stick as I do a lot of hiking myself and can utilise this method. I think it's a really useful skill to have and it's always something when demonstrated ignites the boy scout in everyone :-)

your_comforting_company
08-02-2010, 06:43 AM
yep. it needs to be DEAD. fresh wood has too much moisture locked in the cells. As I've found with several materials, it should preferrably be "weathered".
Keep trying with different materials. If you can locate yucca, it is a very good firestarter and is what I learned with.

letslearntogether47
08-16-2010, 07:50 AM
Has anybody tried stag horn sumac as a spindle or fire board?
That stuff grows like crazy in some sections around my place.Seems to me it would need to dry out considerably as it has a rather spongy center.

your_comforting_company
08-16-2010, 04:00 PM
I'll try anything. I'll see if I can find some around and give it a shot. Winged sumac is abundant here so I intend to try that too, just haven't gotten around to it yet. So many hobbies, so little time...

I did try Crash's method of using tinder fungus as my hearth over the weekend with a hand drill and it worked pretty well. Bored through the fungus pretty quick, but it worked!

letslearntogether47
08-16-2010, 05:21 PM
Cool YCC,

I tried a white birch spindle on a white ceder fire board over the weekend.
Get what appears to be a coal,but goes out rather quickly.
Got 2 coals on the ceder on ceder spindle and fire board.
The first time I failed to blow it into fire.
Next I want to try poplar.From what I understand poplar,cotton wood and aspen are all the same tree?Is this true?Just named different in other areas of the country?

Rick
08-16-2010, 05:58 PM
They are all in the family Salicaceae. Poplar, cottonwood and aspen are different species within that family.

letslearntogether47
08-16-2010, 06:09 PM
They are all in the family Salicaceae. Poplar, cottonwood and aspen are different species within that family.

Thanks Rick,

That had me confused........not hard.:blushing:
So all would be good for bow drill if dry and passed the fingernail test?

Rick
08-16-2010, 06:37 PM
Here's a list I stole from another site....

Agave (stalk) - Very Easy (probably not in wet conditions)
Ailanthus – Easy
American Basswood – Very Easy
American Beech – Difficult
American Elm – Difficult
Apple – Very Difficult, unsuccessful so far
Atlantic White Cedar – Very Easy
Balsam Fir – Easy, bonus: sap is only found in bark
Black Ash – Difficult
Black Birch - Moderately Difficult
Black Cherry – Very Difficult
Black Walnut – Moderately Difficult/ Very Difficult, white sapwood works/unsuccessful with dark heartwood
Box Elder – Moderately Easy
Common Juniper – Easy
Eastern Cottonwood – Easy
Eastern Cottonwood Root – Very Easy
Eastern Hemlock – Moderately Difficult, need to select as sap free wood as possible
Eastern Hop Hornbeam – Difficult
Eastern Red Cedar – Moderately Easy
Evening Primrose on Basswood – Easy
Grey Birch – Moderately Easy, always wet, must be dried
Mullein on Cedar – Easy
Northern White Cedar – Very Easy
Pitch Pine – Moderately Difficult, try to find as sap free wood as possible
Quaking Aspen – Moderately Difficult, hard to find dry wood
Red Maple – Difficult
Red Oak – Difficult
Red Pine – Moderately Easy
Saguaro Cactus – Very Easy, easy to find dead standing cactus, use ribs
Sassafras – Difficult
Speckled Alder – Easy, virtually impossible to find dead dry wood
Spruce (species?) – Moderately Difficult
Staghorn Sumac – Moderately Easy
Striped Maple – Moderately Difficult
Tamarack – Moderately Easy
White Ash – Difficult
White Pine – Moderately Easy, must use wood without sap, does not work well after rain
White Pine Root – Very Difficult, don't even waste your time
Willow (species?) – Easy
Yellow Birch – Moderately Easy
Yellow Poplar – Moderately Easy

Erratus Animus
08-16-2010, 09:30 PM
Here's a list I stole from another site....

Arggg The Pirate of the wilderness survival you be :sailor:

your_comforting_company
08-16-2010, 11:00 PM
I use a yellow poplar (tulip poplar, Liriodendron tulipfera) hearthboard for harder spindles. Nandina domestica is a rather hard wood for a spindle, but the yellow poplar hearth is just a fraction harder and makes fire. It is a bit aggressive on softer woods like a yucca stalk and tends to do more grinding than friction.
If my spindle drills through my black willow (Salix nigra) hearth, I switch to the poplar. It's all about having the right combination... the elements...
the spindle should be marginally soft, dentable with the fingernail, but I find this is not necessarily true, as I've made fire with harder woods as well.
The hearth should be ever so slightly harder than the spindle.. I think of my spindle as the kindling of the ember, and the hearth the "sparker" or the part that makes the friction.
If your hearth is too hard, it will just wear down your spindle, too soft and you'll drill through it. I'm still experimenting with woods and combinations as I find pieces worth trying and it is largely a learning process for me as well.

The technique / mechanics of bow-drilling is the key part, second is the identification of the properties of your materials, and third is not being afraid to experiment with everything. I've even made fire with chinaberry (Melia azedarach). Yucca seems to work with any hearth that isn't too hard

Rick, I noticed some of the ones I've used are missing from your list.. you gotta add crepe myrtle (moderate), chinaberry (difficult), and yucca (best for beginners).

your_comforting_company
08-16-2010, 11:04 PM
The road crews were cleaning ROW along ditches and I found a pile of willows cut down, some black, and some crack willow. I harvested more black and a few pieces of crack willow (S. fragilis). It was dead and starting to lose leaves, but not dead enough yet, so it's weathering in the yard for a few weeks, although a few of the branches were dead and brittle.. might have a go with those this weekend.

letslearntogether47
08-20-2010, 09:33 AM
Yesterday I picked up a horse hoof mushroom off the ground that I had kicked off a tree weeks ago.I got my bow drill set out and tried it as a fire board.The shroom was hard like wood but just didn't make any smoke,mostly just drilled.I saved the dust and grabbed my normal,white ceder fire board.
After a few minutes I had a nice coal that I got glowing nice and red with fanning from my hand.Dumped the coal into the mushroom and then sprinkled the dust on top slowly while blowing gently.The shroon burned nicely and started to expand outward creating a nice big coal.I'm a believer in fungus tinder.
Now,hopefully I'll find some chaga(true tinder) to try off of a local white birch stand.
Sometime I'll have to get the camera out and show a few pictures.

letslearntogether47
08-23-2010, 08:00 AM
Probably should have posted my above reply in the fungus tinder thread.:blushing:
I was just shocked at how long the ember lasted straight from the bow drill.
YCC,have you used any natural cortege for a bow drill yet?
I followed your post on making some from yucca leaves.

your_comforting_company
08-23-2010, 08:11 AM
I find that my crude yucca cordage will make a few fires before it breaks if it's dry. It seems to help to moisten it (not dripping wet) before having a go with the bow. Not as enduring as modern nylon, but it does work.
The splices tend to be the points of failure. Practice making good splices in your natural cordage and it will do much better. Natural cordage tends to grab the spindle beter than the smooth cordage of modern day. Didn't have as much slippage, but I gotta work on my splicings.
Good Luck and let us know how it turns out!

almostbarefoot
10-23-2010, 07:51 PM
Great post, great pics! Thanks! I can get an ember pretty consistently I think I just need better tindle.

almostbarefoot
10-23-2010, 07:53 PM
*tinder* not tindle

Batch
10-23-2010, 08:01 PM
I have heard quite a few people say tindle. But, I have always said tinder. Thought maybe it was a regional thing.

EdD270
10-24-2010, 12:01 AM
Thanks for the good tips, ycc, and all the info from everyone. I'm a newbie here, but have been trying to make fire with the bow drill for years. Haven't done it yet. We just have pine, spruce, fir and juniper and black locust around here. The yucca all have spindley stalks, about pencil size, that are too fragile to use with a bow. I found some really nice shaped stones in the wash, and used a 3/4" masonry bit to put a socket in them, work fine. Split my hearth board from a juniper stick, and use a pine or juniper branch for the bow. For spindles, or drills as some call them, I've used pine, juniper, Oregon Grape, Currant, and Rose.
I get dust, I get smoke, I keep sawing away, the smoke quits. No ember yet, still trying.

Would "tindle" be a contraction for "tinder bundle"?

your_comforting_company
10-24-2010, 10:32 AM
tindle is a contraction of "tinder bundle", I've also heard the hearth called several different things, and same with the spindle.. It's a pretty basic and straightforward endeavor, so we won't get hung up on the lingo..
Ed, if they have much resin or pitch in them, they will gum up once they reach a certain heat.. You'd be surprised at some of the other materials we've found that work. Resinous materials are very hard to get an ember with. Stay away from pine, not sure about juniper (isn't it similar to cedar?), and the others sound like "definately maybe"s.
Keep trying and let us know how it turns out.

rwc1969
10-24-2010, 08:14 PM
EdD270, I'd try using the same material for both the spindle and fireboard/ hearth. And possibly a longer bow. You can also narrow down the diameter of the spindle where it meets the fireboard. After doing these three things my success with the bow drill/ firebow has greatly improved.

I did a series of vids here that shows the whole process in detail.

Here is part one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yvco9cKcwv8

crimescene450
11-22-2010, 10:17 PM
Will a piece of oak (with lubrication) work for the handhold?

your_comforting_company
11-22-2010, 11:04 PM
I don't see why knot!

rwc1969
11-22-2010, 11:17 PM
I got my first embers and fires with an oak handhold/ bearing block using soapwort for a lube. I've also used red pine resin as a lube. But, a piece of solid fatwood makes an excellent handhold and long lasting socket with no lube required.

crimescene450
12-12-2010, 10:19 PM
whoo-hoo! i did it.

Its alot harder to do in CA than it is on the east coast. Not sure why.

I ended up using all cottonwood.
including the handhold and bow. I used pine needles to lube the handhold (thanks rwc).

I had 5 coals yesterday, but i was having too much trouble getting the tinder to light. SOmeone tol,d me on another site that cattail fuzz doesnt ignite easy, but rather it acts as a coal extender. So i mixed cattail fuzz and grass to get a good combo.

After i got fire, I did it another 3 times (successfully) just to make sure it wasnt a fluke.


Thanks to YCC, rwc, and all the other people who helped!

now i just gotta get the handrill

crashdive123
12-12-2010, 10:21 PM
Well done. Fire good.

your_comforting_company
12-12-2010, 10:32 PM
Excellent work CS! I'm glad you got it! Now practice with that combo till the motions become automatic, and then start trying different materials. I'm sure you'll find lots of other things that work.
I'm proud of you. Congratulations!

rwc1969
12-13-2010, 12:53 AM
Wow, that's cool. I've not been able to get it to work using the same material for the handhold. I always need it to be harder than the spindle.

The handhold is my weak point, too much friction and wear, and if I run out of fatwood, sap or soapwort I'm gonna be so spoiled I don't know what I'll use.

crimescene450
12-13-2010, 02:49 AM
Wow, that's cool. I've not been able to get it to work using the same material for the handhold. I always need it to be harder than the spindle.

The handhold is my weak point, too much friction and wear, and if I run out of fatwood, sap or soapwort I'm gonna be so spoiled I don't know what I'll use.

well ive been adding a bit of pine needle every time. So much that the top tip is basically laminated now. Its like plastic almost and i dont get any friction any more.

rwc1969
12-13-2010, 01:55 PM
That's cool. That's exactly how a piece of fatwood becomes after several uses, almost as good as a shot glass. I've even heard mention of putting pine resin on the string itslef to prevent wear and slippage, but I've yet to try it.

I planned on making another Dogbane cordage firebow and using the pine resin to strengthen it, but never got around to it. I have about 20 stalks of Dogbane just waiting to be corded up.

charibelle18
12-15-2010, 09:10 AM
I have a firebow that I have been working with. It is probably shorter than most of yours, but I have short arms. My body is shaped like a dwarfs, only 5'2". My spindle is yucca. It weathered attached to the plant. I just cut it off a month ago. I get heat, & smoke going, but not much dust for the ember to light. The end of my spindle gets glassy. I'll post pics later. I think it could be my hearth board.

your_comforting_company
12-15-2010, 09:25 AM
Chari (do you mind if I call you chari?), What is your hearth material?

Is it possible to get detail pics on your hearth, notch, and spindle? That might help us troubleshoot it.

stature hasn't got much to do with it.. if my kids can do it, surely you can too!

crashdive123
12-15-2010, 09:28 AM
After you burn in your hearth board (not everybody does) take a knife or sharp rock and scrape off the glaze from your spindle.

charibelle18
12-15-2010, 09:37 AM
here they are. The hearth is a board I had laying around my house. My guess is pine. The hand hold is a candle snuffer. I get no friction from it, & so far it works ok. I can keep the spindle in the hearth. I have kept up on this thread since I started, so the cord tension works. Here are the pics

charibelle18
12-15-2010, 09:38 AM
YCC Chari is nice. I like it.

rwc1969
12-15-2010, 11:14 AM
Try a different hearth board material or increase pressure slightly. Storebought wood doesn't seem to work very well compared to seasoned wood.

charibelle18
12-15-2010, 09:44 PM
I got closer this time. I got an ember with a pecan hearth board. My cord broke on me. It's a natural fiber cord, & doesn't last long. But like others say, it grabs the spindle better.
I should be able to get it now, with a better hearth board. Just gotta keep working at it. :sweatdrop: :smash:

crimescene450
12-16-2010, 01:53 AM
yeah i did the same thing as you when i started. I used some fancy baseboard made of pine.

My biggest initial problem was my string. It would keep ripping. So now ive been using rope thats a bit thicker than my pinky finger. It never rips at all. Since then i havent had any problems getting an ember.

your_comforting_company
12-16-2010, 03:21 AM
The pine didn't look too aweful glossy to me, more pressure might have gotten it to work, but as a general rule of thumb, you don't want to use sappy or pitchy woods. Since you swapped hearths, I think you'll have a much better time. As Crash suggests, when experimenting, often I'll grind or cut off the glossy char on the spindle.

I find its all about the right balance of speed, pressure, and spin. If you can get the triad to balance out with your materials, just about any will work. I have forced red cedar to work, not an easy task. Sounds like you are on the right track now.
Keep us updated, please. I've been wanting to play around with pecan wood, just haven't gotten around to it LOL. So many projects!

And I agree with RWC. Seasoned, or cured wood, doesn't seem to perform the same as weathered wood.

rwc1969
12-16-2010, 12:52 PM
If you angle the bow down in the front the string will not rub on itself as much which will make it last longer. Personally, I have a real hard time doing that as I use a long bow and it ends up digging into the ground.

If you want to eliminate the string slippage and breakage from the equation use paracord, it will last indefinitely and you can really crank it down tight. Of course you will be spoiling yourslef in the process. LOL!

If you don't want to be spoiled then give your cord a really good tight twist after stringing one end. That will strengthen it and reduce slippage, especially if it's natural fibers like dogbane for instance.

charibelle18
12-23-2010, 01:34 AM
This was a great Christmas present. Fire at last!!!!!!!! :airhorn: :taz: :noway: :clap: :santasmile: :flare:

With the help of my daughter, her friend, & myself. Being a :gimp: my arms wouldn't last. My daughter stood on the hearth, while I stabilized it, & held the spindle in place. When my arm gave out, my daughters friend took over. We took turns, & finally got the smoke turning color. It was such a beautiful coal, & I had the tinder ready. It took only a small time to blow to flame in the tinder.

Pocomoonskyeyes3
12-23-2010, 01:39 AM
Congratulations Charibelle!!! Your success was a happy moment for me too! It brought a smile to my face.

charibelle18
12-23-2010, 01:52 AM
I meant we took turns with the bow.:blush:

rwc1969
12-23-2010, 01:58 AM
That's great! Teamwork.

crashdive123
12-23-2010, 08:27 AM
Outstanding. Well done.

Rick
12-23-2010, 08:32 AM
Nice job. It's not so much how you did it as the success you had. Instead of a red faced smiley face you'd have a laughing smiley face if the three of you had been outside in the cold and NEEDED a fire. Heat is heat. You're miles ahead of me.

crashdive123
12-23-2010, 08:52 AM
In addition to the satisfaction of starting your first bow drill fire, you have answered that age old question.......

How many people does it take to start a bow drill fire?

your_comforting_company
12-23-2010, 09:10 AM
That's terrific chari! And the smiles prove just how great an accomplishment it was for all of you. Thanks for the pics. I cherish those smiles just as much as the fire itself. Smiles warm our hearts and the fire warms the rest. Great work! The more you practice it, the more your endurance and strength will increase. WooHoo!!

Batch
12-23-2010, 10:00 AM
Great job!

MountanWolf
12-31-2010, 08:27 AM
Hey!

I'm new to this forum. Nice thread you have here. I just want to share my experiences with bowdrill. So i've started using bowdirll in September and i've experimeted with different wood types. I'm from Europe (Slovenia) so I never tried yucca and cedar for making fire with bowdrill.

These are the woods I made fire using bowdrill:

Board:|Spindle:|Comment:
Willow | Willow| My 1st set. Really easy to make good ember
Willow | Basswood| Also good combo for beginner
Basswood | Basswood |I think this is best combo for beginners
Aspen | Aspen | Bit harder to make ember than Basswood
Hazel | Hazel | Same as aspen on aspen
Aspen | Hazel | Harder than Aspen on Aspen but still works fine
Beech | Beech | I've managed to create ember but it's HARD
Aspen | Beech | Managed to get good ember

Some pictures:
http://users.skavt.net/pkristja/Fire/1.jpg
Ember:
http://users.skavt.net/pkristja/Fire/7.jpg
My old bowdrill set:
http://users.skavt.net/pkristja/Fire/2.jpg
http://users.skavt.net/pkristja/Fire/3.jpg
Making fire in winter:
http://users.skavt.net/pkristja/Fire/4.jpg
http://users.skavt.net/pkristja/Fire/5.jpg
My new bowdrill set:
http://users.skavt.net/pkristja/Fire/6.jpg

Hope I helped someone.

Happy New Year!!

your_comforting_company
12-31-2010, 10:46 AM
Outstanding! Thank you very much for the info and pictures!

charibelle18
12-31-2010, 11:57 AM
Great pics. It's good to know that the fire-bow is being used in the wild.

crimescene450
12-31-2010, 03:54 PM
ive been using an old lawn mower pull cord for my bow drill now. I have to say, its the strongest cordage ever. I think it has some metal braided in.

MountanWolf
12-31-2010, 04:01 PM
anyone tryed netle fiber rope for bowdrill?

sh4d0wm4573ri7
04-11-2011, 05:26 PM
I cheat and cary a premade kit
http://s230.photobucket.com/albums/ee202/sh4d0wm4573ri7/crafts/?action=view&current=Video009.mp4

Justin Case
04-11-2011, 05:29 PM
Hey!

I'm new to this forum. Nice thread you have here. I just want to share my experiences with bowdrill. So i've started using bowdirll in September and i've experimeted with different wood types. I'm from Europe (Slovenia) so I never tried yucca and cedar for making fire with bowdrill.

These are the woods I made fire using bowdrill:

Board:|Spindle:|Comment:
Willow | Willow| My 1st set. Really easy to make good ember
Willow | Basswood| Also good combo for beginner
Basswood | Basswood |I think this is best combo for beginners
Aspen | Aspen | Bit harder to make ember than Basswood
Hazel | Hazel | Same as aspen on aspen
Aspen | Hazel | Harder than Aspen on Aspen but still works fine
Beech | Beech | I've managed to create ember but it's HARD
Aspen | Beech | Managed to get good ember

Some pictures:
http://users.skavt.net/pkristja/Fire/1.jpg
Ember:
http://users.skavt.net/pkristja/Fire/7.jpg
My old bowdrill set:
http://users.skavt.net/pkristja/Fire/2.jpg
http://users.skavt.net/pkristja/Fire/3.jpg
Making fire in winter:
http://users.skavt.net/pkristja/Fire/4.jpg
http://users.skavt.net/pkristja/Fire/5.jpg
My new bowdrill set:
http://users.skavt.net/pkristja/Fire/6.jpg

Hope I helped someone.

Happy New Year!!

Very cool,, Thanks ;)

letslearntogether47
04-15-2011, 02:26 PM
I like the way you personalized your bow and block with carvings.Nice job doing it in the snow.
With the bow drill ,I have had luck only with white cedar spindle on white cedar fire board.Got several fires last spring and fall.
I recently just started practicing again with the hand drill.Got fire at least 4 times last year with Mullein spindle and white cedar fire board.

letslearntogether47
05-02-2011, 11:28 AM
I just got an ember on my second try yesterday on a proven set.
Although the technique is there,the triceps were not prepared for a work out.lol
Feeling it today.

your_comforting_company
05-02-2011, 10:09 PM
It is a good workout. Glad you are having success with it!

assm0nk
06-13-2011, 12:07 PM
I´ve been trying to get a fire going using the bowdrill, but it is just exhausting and frustraiting, i get a lot of smoke and sometimes i even get it to smoke for a few seconds after i take out the spindle. I don´t know what i´m doing wrong, is it the wrong kind of wood (pine for the spindle and the board) or do i just stop "drilling" too soon i really don´t know when i should stop.

letslearntogether47
06-13-2011, 12:58 PM
I´ve been trying to get a fire going using the bowdrill, but it is just exhausting and frustraiting, i get a lot of smoke and sometimes i even get it to smoke for a few seconds after i take out the spindle. I don´t know what i´m doing wrong, is it the wrong kind of wood (pine for the spindle and the board) or do i just stop "drilling" too soon i really don´t know when i should stop.

Pine is not a good wood to use,too much pitch.
I like white cedar myself.But there's a list here somewhere with all the different woods that work well.
It's in this thread.

rwc1969
06-13-2011, 09:57 PM
You just stop drilling too soon, likely because your spindle is starting to bind. Don't stop until it's smoking like a freight train.

jsonlong
06-14-2011, 08:41 AM
I just wanted to share my experience with bow drill fire. This was my first time doing it. I just came back from a 5 day wilderness primitive skill class.

We used cedar for both spindle and board. The handle piece and bow were from a recently felled pine tree. We also cut out from that same pine a rectangular piece of bark to fold into a pine bark bowl for drying into shape. Since this was a controlled environment, we were able to get a coal easily. So I'll just talk about my experience with the solo challenge during our last day which was to use the skills that we learned to spend the night out in the woods. I'll say that for me, the difficult part in getting fire from bow drill is the tinder bundle. It took me 4 attempts to get from coal to fire because of my poorly constructed tinder bundle. For the tinder, I initially used a combination of dried leaves, birch bark, and dried fir needles. I had a hard time blowing that into a fire. What finally ended up working for me was punky wood from a standing dead trunk which I grinded down into really small pea sized chunks. From that first initial coal from my bow drill, I blew and it grew into a small pile of coals. Then I added a few pieces of dried leaves and really small thin twigs which caught fire after more blowing into it. I should mention that I did this solo challenge on a rainy day. So that was really satisfying to know that I could get fire in rainy conditions. Finally, one of the challenges were to boil water and so I used that pine bowl to boil some water on a bed of coals before I went to sleep.

6710

your_comforting_company
06-14-2011, 12:39 PM
Glad to hear of your accomplishment Json. I just want to know how big that smile on your face was when you made that fire! Good job!

jsonlong
06-14-2011, 05:42 PM
Glad to hear of your accomplishment Json. I just want to know how big that smile on your face was when you made that fire! Good job!

Thanks. Honestly, I was just glad and a sense of relief that it worked. I might have said a 'YES!' on the inside. :)

killlshot234
09-28-2013, 06:32 PM
im using all cedar for my set, well accept the bow. this is my first day attempting the fire drill mmethod, and i've all eady got the smoke down, my problem is my power is brown, and only a little comes out

your_comforting_company
10-03-2013, 09:48 PM
Cedar is far from ideal. I have a read heart cedar set that does work, but MAN at the calories that thing takes just to smoke!
Time to beef up your botany skill.. learn the weeds that grow in sandy areas and have long straight stalks: wild lettuce, horseweed, mullein, etc.
And the trees like willow.
If you get that cedar kit to fire up, you'll be surprised at how fast you can get good materials to go. ;)

Kudos
01-01-2014, 09:21 PM
Hey Comforting

Thanks for sharing that.... I have always wanted to make fire the Primitive way without resorting to rubbing two Boy Scouts together LOL.

I am going to do this and I'll let you know how I get on. Obviously the wood needs to be as bone dry as possible.

Would very dry Pine work for the spindle and base?? I ask because I am surrounded by pine but would have to find a harder wood to hold the top of the spindle. What are your thoughts??

crashdive123
01-01-2014, 09:38 PM
I'm obviously not YCC, but I would avoid any wood like pine that is high in resins - just makes it more difficult and a lot of "glazing" will take place.

Kudos
01-01-2014, 09:43 PM
Maybe I need a trip to Home Depot then??? Not really sure where I could buy the right kind of wood locally
Either that or I will have to scour the Woods but it is pretty much all Pine and Oak here

crashdive123
01-01-2014, 09:53 PM
If you're just practicing technique, there's nothing wrong with buying a piece or two. Cedar works pretty well.

your_comforting_company
01-06-2014, 01:48 PM
If you do go to the Depot look for white pine or Lodge pole. It seems the least sappy.
Also, don't necessarily limit yourself to trees.. many herbaceous plants make excellent spindles.
I have not had great success with cedar, but it will work.

wolverine_173
04-14-2014, 02:53 AM
im no good at identifying wood. Can someone tell me what type of wood to use for the board and the spindle? I live in Utah

crashdive123
04-14-2014, 05:14 PM
Don't know what is available to you. Best to experiment - just make sure it's real dry.

bob393
05-18-2014, 09:53 AM
Nicely done.
Thanks for taking the time to document it.

bikecopjoe
06-11-2014, 04:13 PM
Excellent pictures and instructions. thanks.

BrandonB
08-01-2014, 12:56 PM
For anyone in the Virginia/South East Area, especially coastal Virginia who is having difficulty. I have had great success with Sycamore as the spindle and Tulip Poplar as the Hearthboard. I know many people suggest that the spindle and hearthboard should be of the same material, but I have never had success with that. Just take your time and pace yourself in the beginning. Create a good rhythm, get your heat built up, then when you see white smoke, go to town. I know the humidity in this area can play a big factor.

Tokwan
08-04-2014, 02:39 AM
How come I can't see the pics?

Rick
08-04-2014, 06:07 AM
They display. Try it again. If you are still having trouble what browser are you using?

crashdive123
08-04-2014, 06:10 AM
I just edited the posts. You should be able to see them now.

Rick
08-04-2014, 06:12 AM
What the?! That is one crazy bug. I just checked for that and they were showing. Weird.

crashdive123
08-04-2014, 06:14 AM
You probably checked the pages I already edited. I had to go through 7 pages and am slow in the morning and afternoon and evening.

Rick
08-04-2014, 06:15 AM
Well....there you go.

Tokwan
08-11-2014, 10:29 PM
Hmmm..I wish you guys could speak my language and tell me what trees (in my language) are best for me to get the wood from cos, your trees and my trees are totally different.....I can get fire using the bow drill or the bamboo saww...but it is quite painstaking and requires a lot of time...and I am not good with trees..the only trees that I can identify are rattan, bamboo, banana, coconut, acrea nut, oil palm, rubber trees, aloe vera, tapioca, papaya trees and durian trees..hehehe..
Anyway, I still practice.

Tokwan
08-11-2014, 10:34 PM
I am now able to see the pictures. Rick you do look like a rock star, and if you paly the electric guitar and sing or shout,..I am sure you will be famous here.

hammer9875
11-06-2014, 11:38 PM
hey just wanted to say thank you for the demonstration pics , I am new to all this and can use all the help I can get and that was a great help thanks again

your_comforting_company
11-07-2014, 07:16 AM
Our pleasure! :D

TXyakr
11-22-2014, 05:59 PM
Hmmm..I wish you guys could speak my language and tell me what trees (in my language) are best for me to get the wood from cos, your trees and my trees are totally different.....I can get fire using the bow drill or the bamboo saww...but it is quite painstaking and requires a lot of time...and I am not good with trees..the only trees that I can identify are rattan, bamboo, banana, coconut, acrea nut, oil palm, rubber trees, aloe vera, tapioca, papaya trees and durian trees..hehehe..
Anyway, I still practice.

In most tropical areas the native woods are mostly very hard (NOT ideal), so if possible try to ask some very primitive indigenous people (i.e. the very old ones who still remember). Also try the outer bark of some of the palm trees with that soft fiberous inner still on it (standing dead trees are best, i.e. dry but not rotted). The non-native but very common in Malaysia "West African Palm Oil" and many other palm fruit have oils that may burn well especially if dried out a bit. I read that Malaysia was looking into making bio-desiel from this Palm Oil that grows on millions of acres of land there, perhaps they already do. I like this red, un-purifed oil on fish and shrimp and many other foods, smells a little musty but is good. When you walk into a West African grocery store the smell of it nearly knocks you over. Gotta love it!

your_comforting_company
11-23-2014, 08:57 AM
I second the palm trees. I have broken pieces of the bark off and successfully used a bowdrill on it as the hearthboard. The fibrous stuff makes pretty decent tindles, too. I think I used yucca (an aloe family plant) flower stalk as the spindle. From what I understand, aloe spp. plants grow all over the world.

Batch
11-23-2014, 11:32 AM
YCC, what palm are you taking the bark off of and what are you calling the bark? I have seen people refer to the dried boots off of the cabbage/sabal palm as bark.

Tokwan, we have many of these species here either native, cultivated and escaped or just cultivated. We don't have rattan. But we have many palms in that same family. We have bamboo, just not in the woods and swamps I frequent. We have banana, coconut, African oil palm, aloe vera, tapioca (it is called cassava or yuca), papaya trees and cultivated durian trees. Our cultivated papaya get big and I was always waiting for the ones in the woods to get big and ripe. Then I found out that the wild ones here rarely do.

I have not tried any of these woods in a fire drill.

your_comforting_company
11-24-2014, 07:33 AM
They are the triangular pieces on the trunk. Probably not really bark :blushing:. The trees themselves grow to about 30 feet, and I want to say the ones I tried were date palms? Little orange fruits in the top on stalks that remind me of yucca stalks.

your_comforting_company
11-24-2014, 07:33 AM
Really have to watch your pressure, though, or you'll drill right through em.

TXyakr
11-25-2014, 09:20 PM
YCC, what palm are you taking the bark off of and what are you calling the bark? I have seen people refer to the dried boots off of the cabbage/sabal palm as bark.

Tokwan, we have many of these species here either native, cultivated and escaped or just cultivated. We don't have rattan. But we have many palms in that same family. We have bamboo, just not in the woods and swamps I frequent. We have banana, coconut, African oil palm, aloe vera, tapioca (it is called cassava or yuca), papaya trees and cultivated durian trees. Our cultivated papaya get big and I was always waiting for the ones in the woods to get big and ripe. Then I found out that the wild ones here rarely do.

I have not tried any of these woods in a fire drill.

The primary palm I have experience with for many uses is the açaí palm native to swampy areas in northern Brazil, it has a hard outer layer with softer fiberous inner core. We built a lot of structures out of it but it is also useful for fire drill. Because you don't have this particular species try Coconut, African oil palm, date palms, most tall fruit palms or similar. My guess is that the others are too soft even when fully dried out such as: banana, tapioca, papaya. A fully mature aloe vera or yucca can get a little woody down at the base or in the stems perhaps, but most in N.A. are very soft. However, some of these plants may provide great cordage for bow drill.

TXyakr
11-26-2014, 11:58 AM
Here is a demo of a Fire-Bow using a Palm leaf stem of a species common in southern USA but this should work with most palm leaves if they have been dead for a while and fully dried out. Best if still attached to tree, i.e. dry but not rotted or wet. My theory is that unlike most tropical hardwoods or very soft non-woody plants these work reasonably well because they have the differential layers between the hard outside shell and the softer fibrous inner material that smolders well. Just a guess, ask a fire or chemical expert. Several stems held together so they do not break may work if just rubbed as a "Fire Saw" i.e. no bow string/cord.


http://youtu.be/-yiQr0n-NBA

Now if this guy had built a little shelter of palm leaves and started a small campfire in a driving rain and thunderstorm I would have been very impressed. Well that is a project for me, perhaps, heck no I've got T-day turkey to eat, LOL.

TXyakr
11-26-2014, 12:48 PM
Hand Drill, Coconut Palm and a "shoe box tree" fiber plant as base. Less than 60 seconds of hand rubbing to a useable coal.
Dang impressive to me!:thumbs_up:


http://youtu.be/23DTO1_ui2c

Enigma
03-24-2015, 05:38 AM
It still takes me about 3 minutes as a norm to get an ember. !
if you come down this way try some Xanthorea for both spindle and base board.

My best is 15 seconds using Xanthorea. Timed

30 seconds is when things aren't exactly perfect. 1 minute is when things are not set up correctly, and should be changed.

We show this every single lesson.

We are extremely fortunate to have 28 species of Xanthorea, and it's pretty much a common sight in the bush. I've also used introduced Lantana, which is not bad, but straight spindles are the key, as most have slightly bent vines.

Enigma
03-25-2015, 07:01 AM
http://i42.tinypic.com/kczcqd.jpg

BerSerK
05-30-2015, 09:21 PM
Your post made me register, thanks a lot dude, awesome guide!

gruieaamarin
02-25-2017, 09:04 AM
If you do not understand the language can speak pictures

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKmw43JtogM

kyratshooter
02-26-2017, 02:55 PM
deleted....

Antonyraison
02-27-2017, 04:43 AM
Waiting for the rains to cease down in Africa, been raining here for a week non stop,
I do intend to make a video start to finish on Bow drill (fire drill) start to finish... I will likely use something common to all areas ( I hope) Willow. which works very well.

I go over some of the issues and problems I have encountered via a few months of trail and error and practice.
I will explain it as simply as I can..
On my last outing I was doing a bow drill work shop session with some guys, I had 5 others with me and 4 out of 5 all got it right using one of my 2 sets ( I have a Forrest elder set and a willow set) Hopefully I put the video out soon after this heavy rains, just obviously everything is wet now.

hunter63
02-27-2017, 10:09 AM
What?..... Fire bow don't work in the rain?........LOL(joke)

Is humidity a problem in your area?......or is it normally pretty dry?

Antonyraison
02-28-2017, 02:57 AM
What?..... Fire bow don't work in the rain?........LOL(joke)

Is humidity a problem in your area?......or is it normally pretty dry?

Where I stay no humidity is not an issue, it is very dry in the high-veld area normally..we had a drought for about 3 years and the rains finally been breaking through the last few months, only let up yesterday.

flyakker
04-24-2018, 10:37 AM
Aw, the pictures are gone again

Rick
04-25-2018, 07:48 AM
Yes, thanks to that wasteland photobucket. YCC hasn't been on in a long time. Not sure what happened to him.

crashdive123
04-25-2018, 08:35 PM
Yep. Photobucket broke the internet.

flyakker
04-26-2018, 01:35 PM
I lost a crapton of photos to them and the other dinosaur from back in the MySpace days

mesterwill
02-26-2020, 06:25 PM
Thank u so much for sharing that.



************************** bye bye.