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Trabitha
02-17-2010, 04:36 PM
So I came across 3 16oz jars and 2 33oz glass jars yesterday. They were only 3.00 each, so I grabbed them. They're the ones with the metal latch tops and rubber rings around the mouth of the jar.
Now...they say that they aren't really meant for canning, but that got me thinking. What DID they use to can before the Bell Canning lids were created?

Winnie
02-17-2010, 05:44 PM
I think metal cans were used before jars, Tee. Before that I would imagine other methods of preserving were used. I know over here wet pigs bladders were used to cover stone pottery jars of dried goods or jam. As the bladder dried, it would shrink and produce an airtight seal. Neat eh!

2dumb2kwit
02-17-2010, 05:50 PM
I don't know the answer, to your question, but I saw a good use for one of those jars, on TV.

A guy put 3 or 4 different kinds of chili peppers (jalapeno, pablano, etc.) in the jar, then filled with vodka. After a few days, use the pepper infused vodka to make bloody mary's.:drool: Mmmmmmm.

Trabitha
02-17-2010, 06:33 PM
That IS neat, Winnie!! I'll have to do some research on can without bell canning jars and lids...or get a lifetime supply of them! LOL!

2D!!! That's a GREAT idea too! I've got some awesome hot peppers that I dried over the winter, ready to do something with anyway. I'm gonna go get me some vodka tomorrow! Bloody Mary's are the BEST! :drool:

Winnie
02-17-2010, 07:25 PM
Over the last few months I've been researching forgotten methods of preserving for an experiment I'm conducting in May, I'm going back to the 1940's for a month! Another method of sealing jars is to top off the contents, whilst hot with a layer of melted wax. The wax cools and provides the seal. I would think these methods require a lot of skill and practice though. Stoneware jars were used prior to glass jars. Glass jars andMetal cans have been used since the 1800's. This is an interesting read.

http://www.tinplategroup.com/pooled/articles/BF_DOCART/view.asp?Q=BF_DOCART_197927

LowKey
02-17-2010, 07:48 PM
Brief history (scroll down past the top ad)
http://www.pickyourown.org/canningjars.htm

We use to put up jelly using paraffin. I don't think I'd trust it for anything else. Even now the FDA (who takes the fun out of everything) is recommending you don't use it for jelly either. The only bit of practice you need is to make sure you pour the wax onto the jelly gently so it floats on top. If the liquid jelly rides up over the wax, it spoils your seal. You have to sterilize your jars first though by boiling them, pour in the boiling jelly then pour on the boiling wax. It's really tough to keep it all sterile. They used to say you could just strike off the mold that might form but if it infiltrates the jelly don't eat it. You betcha. Any moldy thing got tossed. Now I just can jellies.

Before the 1800s there was brining/fermenting, salting, drying, smoke curing, root cellars... not a lot of long term storage options.

Rick
02-17-2010, 08:33 PM
What DID they use to can before the Bell Canning lids were created?

Even though they used those jars to can with, remember that they didn't have anything SAFER and better. The old ways weren't necessarily the best ways. Lead sealed cans, for example, wouldn't be something I'd want to try today.

I'm sure you can dry can with them. As long as the rubber is good they would probably work.

LowKey
02-17-2010, 08:42 PM
The new glass jars with rubber rings, the ones you buy in stores today, are just for pretty. You can keep the bugs out of your rice in them but they really aren't for serious canning. Or at least the ones I've seen in some of the box kitchen stores, usually priced around $8 each for a quart size. First time it was "Oooh looky that!" but they had a label right on them that said for dry storage only. I don't think I'd even want to try a vacuum seal on them. There are plastic versions too that you can't even put in the dishwasher.

crashdive123
02-17-2010, 09:20 PM
Dry canning shouldn't be a problem. The best thing is that they look cool as heck.

your_comforting_company
02-17-2010, 09:22 PM
you could replace any gaskets that went bad with wax saturated leather. We've used them for dry storage, but not much else.

cowgirlup
02-18-2010, 08:26 PM
I have lots of those and use them for beans, peas rice, any dry item. Much better than the bag or box they came in and they look nice on the kitchen shelf. I already had some and I keep finding them in the "free"section at the town recycling center.

Love the pepper/vodka idea!!!!

preachtheWORD
02-18-2010, 08:50 PM
I have also been thinking about non-modern methods of long term food storage. By that I mean something that does not employ any modern conveniences or inventions.

Lots of meats were smoked or salted or variously cured. But what about veggies? How practically to most veggies dry? Do they keep well if they are dried? Do they reconstitute well?

If veggies could be tried out completely they might be efficiently stored in your rubber-sealed jars.

hunter63
02-18-2010, 11:20 PM
I have lots of those and use them for beans, peas rice, any dry item. Much better than the bag or box they came in and they look nice on the kitchen shelf. I already had some and I keep finding them in the "free"section at the town recycling center.

Love the pepper/vodka idea!!!!

DW kinda collects and uses the jars with class tops and wire bails, have rubber gaskets on most, and you are right, looks good on the shelves both at home and the cabin.

DW and my mother both use the paraffin for jelly and jam, didn't know anything about it being bad for you? new one?

We were kinda talking about lard, pork and eggs stored in a Pork Barrel in another thread about pemmican.
I had read about this in several books about the Oregon Trail, Gold rush etc, but I'm turning up nothing about this that I can pass on.
Sadly, doing a search only turns up political references which actually come from this practice.
Sometimes the interweb isn't as heplful as it might seem.

Winnie
02-19-2010, 07:59 AM
I have also been thinking about non-modern methods of long term food storage. By that I mean something that does not employ any modern conveniences or inventions.

Lots of meats were smoked or salted or variously cured. But what about veggies? How practically to most veggies dry? Do they keep well if they are dried? Do they reconstitute well?

If veggies could be tried out completely they might be efficiently stored in your rubber-sealed jars.

Lowkey and DSCrick are the masters of dehydrating. Rick cans a lot of his veggies.
Historically,until canning came along veggies were eaten seasonally and stored in root cellars and the like. I don't think a lot were preserved as such apart from dried pulses. I could be wrong though, I suppose it all depends how far back you want to go.

your_comforting_company
02-19-2010, 08:51 AM
If you want to go really far back, the Swift Creeks would use muscadines, bullaces, and scuppernongs (and wild grapes) to make sort of "fruit roll ups". What little I've found about food storage in ancient days, includes salting, air drying, and sun drying. Other than that, most of the stores were foodstuffs that are easily stored anyway... acorns, walnuts, etc. Most anything else was integrated into family or community gardens as the Natives used a LOT of agrarian tactics.

Here's a tip I learned from Mac (yes mac, I pay attention to your posts too) :
The best way to preserve your food is to KEEP IT ALIVE!

Rick
02-19-2010, 08:56 AM
Hunter - Canning with wax isn't bad for you but it isn't as safe or fool proof as more modern canning methods.

"Because of possible mold contamination, paraffin or wax seals are no longer recommended for any sweet spread, including jellies."

http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/can_07/prep_jam_jelly.html

Winnie
02-19-2010, 09:07 AM
Good grief Rick! I've just read that, and according to them I should be dead. My method of jam-making is as old as the hills. #1 wash and sterilise jars.#2 make jam and pour into the hot jars whilst the jam is still hot.#3 Place waxed paper disc on top of hot jam.# 4put on lid OR cellophane circle tied with elastic band or string. #5 store until you want it! I've got jams 2 years old that are still good.

Thought I'd better add, this is the way I was taught to make jam, I've been doing it for years. If the UGA recommend a better method, go with that. Just because I use it, doesn't make it the best method.

Rick
02-19-2010, 09:09 AM
The old ways work. No doubt. A lot of folks have thrown away spoiled food using the old ways, too. I'm sure a couple were poisoned along the way as well. We often mistake food poisoning for the flu since the symptoms are similar.

Winnie
02-19-2010, 09:13 AM
I mustv'e been editing as you posted Rick, great minds think alike.

Rick
02-19-2010, 09:17 AM
There are lots of good ways to do any job, I guess. We start fires several different ways and the end result is the same, we get warm. When it comes to food preservation, the same is true. Some are a bit safer than others and today's tools make it easier and more efficient to do the job.

hunter63
02-19-2010, 12:44 PM
I always amazes at the reports that tell you whats bad for you, and I agree, Winnie, I should be dead as well, 'course maybe not just from food.

I guessed at an early age, parents and grandparents both live thru the depression, and used everything, sometimes ate stuff that maybe had started to "turn"(using their terms).
To this day, one of my earliest memories are of GM, DM, asking, "Does this smell alright to you?"
I probably am still alive today, using the motto, "Don't eat sniffed food, if you gotta sniff it, I ain't eating it".

I do believe that the reports are true.....maybe that's way we live on an average of 70+ years instead of 35 years being considered old.
Don't you just love being "saved from your self?"

Rick
02-19-2010, 12:49 PM
Don't eat sniffed food, if you gotta sniff it, I ain't eating it

That's a great rule. My wife has asked me that question a couple of times. My response is always if in doubt, toss it out. I'm not stickin' my nose in bad food.

your_comforting_company
02-20-2010, 10:00 AM
I think it's relative... What doesn't stink to me (remember I'm a tanner) might smell really bad to you. Wife doesn't ask me to sniff anything, because it all smells "better than that summer hide" lmao!!

For real tho, if you're not sure, it's not worth getting food poisoning. The only thing I can think of that might be marginal is milk. All milk smells sour to me.

madmantrapper
02-21-2010, 10:51 PM
We canned using wax for the seal for years. I have jams that are 10 and 11 years old that are still good. I have ketchup that is we made in the late 60's and early 70's that is still good, it is in pop bottles with caps crimped on. That reminds me I only have about 5 bottles left.