member responsibility here

[wareagle69]

so this thread has been on my mind for a while, and after what has come to light in another thread i have decided to say my peice
So if you notice the last few months i have not posted near as much as i used to, this after reading about ghandi and a mother who asked him to tell her son to stop eating sugar, ghandi said to come back in two weeks. so the mother comes back two weeks later and then ghandi tell the child to stop eating sugar it is bad for you, the mother then says" why did you wait two weeks to say this", and ghandi replies," i first had to stop eating sugar to then be able to tell him that"
so my point is, i feel responsible here about what i post, so i have kept my reponses down to wild edibles and emergency preparedeness, if i post that you can make popcorn out of wild lilly seeds (no i have not tried) then that is what i have done.
as a responsible member i will not post something that i have seen online, in a book or on a video
as a responsible member if i post about something it is because i have done it, not watched allen do it but done it myself,yes by watching allen do it i see that it is possible but it is different making my hands do it, and thus better able to explain it, that is why i am happy poco sent me some flint so i can try fire starting with rocks.
i see it as my responsibility to pass my information and experience along to others in the most truthfull and informative manner possible.
this is a responsibility i take to heart and hope others wil do the same, you never know who is lurking out there who is taking all this to heart.
my intentions are to be this way for a couple of reasons,1-to help make this the best forum out there, 2- when the time comes i hope allot of people have great skills to fall back on and thus making life easier for everyone
thanks for reading this
WE

[Rick]

Well, that's okay if that's what you want to do. But learning is learning. Does it matter where it comes from as long as it's a responsible source? I do agree that experience is crucial but you have learn how to do a thing to gain experience at doing it. We pass along information to each other through a variety of means. AND.... who says you actually did it other than you? I'm not challenging you but you understand my point.

As long as we are honest in our approach (I haven't done this but I've read that...or something similar) then it's all good in my book.

Besides, you have a lot more to offer than just edibles.

[Ken]

Okay, so in the event that the subject arises, I will NOT recommend against self-immolation or jumping into an active volcano simply because I have never tried it myself.

Am I on the right track here, WE? :innocent:

[dbldrew]

You can gain knowledge many different ways, and actually having first hand experience is always a good thing, but isn’t the only way to learn and teach. Personally I think as long as you preference your advice you are going to give with how you came to learn it there is no problem. As in, “I’ve read that..” or “I was shown that…” or “I was told that…” or “what I’ve done…” This way the person receiving the advice knows if it is first hand knowledge or not.

As Ken suggested, if someone came to you and was depressed and was contemplating suicide, are you going to keep quiet and not advise him because you never attempted suicide? I hope not…

[wareagle69]

wow thats impressive, you take a very simple statement about responsibility and turn it into something else, of course ken is a lawyer and an "expert" at making simple things complicated
dbldrew- i completley agree that there are many ways to learn including reading. i have a great many books but knowledge w/o application is ineffective
also to add ot your statement if folks posted that"i have read that you can make popcorn from lilly seeds" that would be one thing but.....
there in lies the problem if someone posts here that rick wears a twinkie suit or that ken is intelligent then someone reads that and passes it along as fact and before you know it everyone here thinks ken is intelligent when that has yet to be proved a reality, why just cuz i read it somewhere?
i try, when i read about a weed that has medicinal properties to question that staement even if i read it from euell gibbons or allen beauchamp i always question it and verify it
example. i was on a nature walk with allot of women and the old guy leading it was trying to sound impressive, he stated that rock tripe cures diahrea, which after trying found it caused it, why? well because the rock tripe actually absorbes pollutants from the air so if you are in the big city it probably will be counter procductive but(and i have yet to test this) if you are out in the middle of no where and in cleaner air it ay work, but all tony said is that it cures diahrea very irresponsible to pass this along most likely becuase someone said that to him or he read it w/o putting in the research

as you can see what i am saying is much different than standing by as someone jumps into a volcano or tries to hurt himeslf-that would be irresponsible
see the diffrence?

[dbldrew]

Well obviously by your stance on the volcano jumping/suicide this isn’t an all or nothing issue. So it goes back to what I said earlier and just preference your knowledge based on how you learned it.

If someone asked you a question about wilderness survival and this is something that you never tried and had first hand knowledge on BUT you have read about it in the SAS Survival handbook (or other reliable source) are you really going to not answer? I really see no problem with you saying “well I’ve never done that but I’ve read in the SAS that…” What’s the problem with that? If you are confident in your source of info why not share that knowledge?

Maybe I don’t fully understand your stance, but on the surface of not tried= no advice seems a bit silly to me. This is not how people learn and share knowledge, but if that is your stance then that is your stance and up to you to make that call.

[old soldier]

the secrete to longevity is careful planning and common sense, but there are still people who will walk out in front of a bus or eat a toad stool even after you tell them they will probably die. A person with no common sense won't survive after the lights go out anyway.

[welderguy]

WE,I'm not sure I fully understand what you point is ( no disrespect intended) , is it if you haven't done it yourself ( hands on ) then you shouldn't talk about it , There are a lot of things I was trained to do , That I do not talk about here or in any forum because of the level of training involved, But I have sharpened many knives if I tell someone on here how I sharpen my knife and even provide a video , what if they do it wrong and cut off a finger, What if you give some wild edible advice and provide pictures but someone still gets the wrong plant and gets sick, should we stop sharing info that could potentially be dangerous I fully believe that no matter what info is posted if you attempt something new do so with caution and get help ands advice from everyone that can help, .

[wareagle69]

if i had no knowledge of wilderness survival, how would i know that sas guide is reputable thats the problem people read something loose something very important in translation and then pass it along, hense my reference to the guide and his info on rock tripe.
my point is this, i try to think like a newbie when i post, someone who visits here but has not joined allot here(and allot not) have great wisdom and expereince and i think it is important to only pass on info that is proven, of course it is now the guests responsibility to go verify this.
example- i posted a while ago about mullein leaves, in no book anywhere can i find reference to the leaves being edible, but they are cuz i ate them, very tastely when cooked right, but i am fortunate to have two people in my life who teach me these things, but i would still recomend someone verifying this for them selves do the reseach learn everything about this plant. call the university in your area talk to botanists and so on.

[welderguy]

Ok WE I see what your saying, If you read in a book that moose poop is good for skeeter bites , if ya havent slathered up in the stuff yourself and know for a fact it works , dont say it does.

[wareagle69]

WE,I'm not sure I fully understand what you point is ( no disrespect intended) , is it if you haven't done it yourself ( hands on ) then you shouldn't talk about it , There are a lot of things I was trained to do , That I do not talk about here or in any forum because of the level of training involved, But I have sharpened many knives if I tell someone on here how I sharpen my knife and even provide a video , what if they do it wrong and cut off a finger, What if you give some wild edible advice and provide pictures but someone still gets the wrong plant and gets sick, should we stop sharing info that could potentially be dangerous I fully believe that no matter what info is posted if you attempt something new do so with caution and get help ands advice from everyone that can help, .

yes i think you understand it, i try to only post what i have done(ie i have not driven a semi to jeaneu so i don't post about it) if i post about a plant that means i first read about it or learned it from my teachers then i learned all about it over a year or two of watching that plant then after two years i ate it, then i pass that info along. but then now it is your responsibility to do the same read about it, studing it know it, own it then if and only if you have done all that eat it.
as i have talked about many times before-owning a skill, it is very important, many a myth has been passed along and started due to inexperience, i have seen a elk shot skinned and quartered, but i will not tell someone else how to do it.
anyhow this is getting more complicated than i had intended, leave it it humans to complicate things that are so simple, i do that too, canning something and i was like "thats it" i thought it was harder than that.
such is life

[wareagle69]

Ok WE I see what your saying, If you read in a book that moose poop is good for skeeter bites , if ya havent slathered up in the stuff yourself and know for a fact it works , dont say it does.

exactly. sometimes peole here are better at saying things than i am
obt way palntain is good for skeeter bites, just chew it up and slather jucie on the bites

[welderguy]

Sometimes the simple things are the hardest to understand.

[hunter63]

WE, I think that you should be commended for your views, experiance is the best teacher.
The world would much better if everyone took honesty and responsibility as serious as that.

I try to learn from any way possible, and I think it would be sad for you to limit your self to only passing along just what you have tried.

I wouldn't want to limit my self if wareagle posted something valable or intresting.
And I felt it could be pasted on (with proper credit), just because I haven't tried it or did try it and wasn't successful (yet?)
Unless that is your desire?

[wareagle69]

hunter. if you feel that my posts are responsible and truthful, and the only way to really know if i am not full of it is to find out for yourself or listen to others with similar posts, then feel free to pass it along. example fire starting with rocks, if i am successful and you are not doesn't mean it isn't true if several others say it can be done, allen has said he can do it, while i do not doubt him, i have not seen him do this nor have i been able to do it, thats why i asked pocco to send me some flint, once i know it can be done with flint i will move onto other rocks, but its the technique with something that works that i need to perfect before i move onto other types of rocks
welderguy-now i am sitting here wondering? is moose poop good for skeeter bites? its like that song you hear on the radio and gets stuck in your head all day

[dbldrew]

Interesting statement about if you had no knowledge. How did you get your knowledge on survival? Where you just born with it? Or did someone tell you, show you, or you read about it? That’s how humans learn we have to read, shown, told, or figure out on your own, to lean how to do something.

Once you have read about it you practice it in the field. But how is someone new going to get past the first step (read/told) to be able to take the knowledge learned and turn that into a real world experience, if you shut down the first step? I guess they could look elsewhere but doesn’t that go against what this forum is about?


I understand what you are saying about passing on bad information, but again if the source of the info is given then said newbie can make a informed decision on what to try in the field and what info to disregard.

[wareagle69]

i think you are misunderstanding me, welder guy said it the best- if you read about moose poo being good for skeeter bites, don't post about how great it works unless you have proven that theory yourself.
most of what i have learned is by reading about it, then testing that theory, i am not suggesting people read about it and not do it, all i say is prove that knowledge before you pass it along, it keeps the learning more pure, but welderguy said it the best and kept it very simple thanks for that

[dbldrew]

i think you are misunderstanding me, welder guy said it the best- if you read about moose poo being good for skeeter bites, don't post about how great it works unless you have proven that theory yourself.
most of what i have learned is by reading about it, then testing that theory, i am not suggesting people read about it and not do it, all i say is prove that knowledge before you pass it along, it keeps the learning more pure, but welderguy said it the best and kept it very simple thanks for that

I understand that but if someone comes on and asks “what works good for skeeter bites”

Your stance is no response to the thread. (lots of unanswered posts and no point to the forum)

My stance is welderguy response is “well I read somewhere that moose poop works great, never tried it myself but more power to ya if you want to try” Now newbie can decide to smear down with poop or look for other options (and maybe if he tries it, it verifies if it works) Forum is strong and there are active discussions the world is a happy place.


I think that pretending that you have first hand experience when all you have done is read about something is irresponsible. But the “no try=no advice” stance is pointless to have on a forum.

[wareagle69]

we can discuus our points all day long here with examples of this and that, i have spoken my peice

[dbldrew]

we can discuus our points all day long here with examples of this and that, i have spoken my peice

That’s your choice to make and I respect that, even if I strongly disagree with your decision.

[Batch]

i was on a nature walk with allot of women and the old guy leading it was trying to sound impressive, he stated that rock tripe cures diahrea, which after trying found it caused it, why? well because the rock tripe actually absorbes pollutants from the air so if you are in the big city it probably will be counter procductive but(and i have yet to test this) if you are out in the middle of no where and in cleaner air it ay work, but all tony said is that it cures diahrea very irresponsible to pass this along most likely becuase someone said that to him or he read it w/o putting in the research



So, WE, lets say that it is commonly reported in WILDERNESS SURVIVAL books that rock tripe is a natural cure for diarrhea.

I certainly would have to be way north of where I am normally and also have diarrhea in the wilderness to even try it as a cure. So, I am guessing it would be nearly impossible for me to actually have any chance of first hand experience with this particular plant.

If I am having a conversation with someone and they make the statement that "Rock Tripe is natural cure for diarhea." Your saying it would be irresponsible for me to tell them that in some cases where rock tripe is near a source of pollution it may actually worsen your symptoms?

Notice that I did not say it causes diarrhea. I would assume that if you are trying it as a cure. That you actually had the diarrhea when you tried to cure it. If not, then you would have to guess what caused the diarrhea. Otherwise, you will have to, while healthy and eliminating as many other risk factors as possible, try the rock tripe several more times and see if you get sick each time or at least the majority of time.

Most who have read any good books on wild edibles will have already have been warned to be careful of eating plants that are near road sides or populated places because of the risk of pollutants.

But, I don't believe that if in the above conversation, I caution someone that using rock tripe to cure diarrhea may have the opposite effect if the lichen has been exposed to pollutants. In fact it would be irresponsible of me not to caution that person, IMHO. I would of course site my source as an internet forum.

Also, there are more than a few people on every forum that claim experience or skills that they do not even come close to owning. None of us have the ability to weed them out completely. I have read one story on this site reportedly happened down here in the Everglades. It was either HEAVILY embellished or straight BS. I looked to see if I saw anything that could get someone hurt. There was not anything that I could see and so I just left it be.

The nice thing is that by your post here about rock tripe. We forum members can say we have heard of a case where it might do more harm... We couldn't say that elsewhere under your rules of posting.

[Batch]

If you read on a forum that moose poop is a good insect repellant. Wouldn't you try and find more reputable sources?

Google it!

[rebel]

It's been my observation on this forum, due to the members' knowledge and experience, that when an inaccurate statement is made it is pointed out.

[hunter63]

It's been my observation on this forum, due to the members' knowledge and experience, that when an inaccurate statement is made it is pointed out.



Yeah think? LOL LOL.............

[rebel]

Yeah think? LOL LOL.............

I like the inaccurate or embellished statements. It gives something to the forum... Entertainment.

[klkak]

yes i think you understand it, i try to only post what i have done(ie i have not driven a semi to jeaneu so i don't post about it)

WE, The reason I brought up the driving to Juneau thing is because there are "NO ROAD" to Juneau. I don't know this because I tried to drive there and found I couldn't but I read there are no roads to Juneau. The same when I posted about the most remote place in Alaska. Why should I spin my wheels trying to figure it out when someone else has already done it and all I have to do is ask google. Some of what you say on this subject makes very good sense but not all.

Kevin,

[hunter63]

The difference between a fairytale and a redneck fairytale,
Fairy tale starts out, "Once upon a time.............
Redneck fairytale, " Y'all ain't never gonna believe this smitt..........

Of course it would be nice if posters did identify which option they were using...
No, Rebel, you're right,.... entertainment value,......... pick the gem from the BS.

[rebel]

The difference between a fairytale and a redneck fairytale,
Fairy tale starts out, "Once upon a time.............
Redneck fairytale, " Y'all ain't never gonna believe this smitt..........

Of course it would be nice if posters did identify which option they were using...
No, Rebel, you're right,.... entertainment value,......... pick the gem from the BS.

That's funny and it reminded me of things you don't want to hear.

"Watch this" and "Hold my beer".

[Rick]

because the rock tripe actually absorbes pollutants from the air so if you are in the big city it probably will be counter procductive but(and i have yet to test this)

I see this is as valid info. I guess I'm in Dbldrew's court on this one. I'm not trying to change your mind but someone else says, Oh, yeah, I've done that (or the opposite) and some discussion takes place. In the end, we learn by everyone's experience. Then I can go out and try it or not and hone my skill at it.

I'll still say that I think you have some keen insight into plants that others could learn from. Just as your post above.

[Ted]

Well all I can say is nobody should blindly follow anyones adivce,no matter the source or personal expieriece, esp in the area of wild edibles. For instance I have a nephew whos can't eat corn! He'll puke his guts out! I also know a woman who can't drink beer! She's allergic to hops!

Bottom line, is NEVER eat anything (plant or mushrooms) without trying a very small portion,like ONE BITE!, wait 24hrs and eat a little more!

[rwc1969]

Uproven and even flase stuff gets passed around all the time. It's what we do as humans. It's not a good idea, I agree, but it happens.

I've taken your approach now though WE, because i see the damage passing along unproven info can do.

It became excrutiatingly apparent once I started delving into survival/ wilderness living subjects, especially wild plants, water procurement and shelters. lotsa bad info out there getting regurgitated to the point that you can't even find good info for all the bad info search results getting in the way.

I appreciate your approach WE.

[wareagle69]

so after much thinking today, cuz thats what i do , i am a thinking type of man, i analyze lots of things and try to look at things from different angles, i thanks the dead poets society for this kwirk and a long conversation with palerider there are a few points that i must concede
1-i am not a biologist or a botanist, i do not have a degree, so a point that i made today about rock tripe is based upon what i have read and not my own scientfic data, but a real biologist who has a degree and whose word i value.
2- so i will concede some points about reading and posting.
but that being said i still stand by what i said about responsible posting, i at least verified my info about rock tripe from a couple of sources first.
there are just sooooo many myths out there and most people(not just here but in the real world too) seem to add to these myths cuz they pass them along.
we did an experiment when i was in military school when i was 13, all the cadets hwere lined up in the student union and the commander whispered something in the first cadets ear, as it made its way around the room it changed dramtically till it got to the last person.
that is part of my point here, to speak the truth as i know it and research it when i hear something about a plant i experiment with it so when i post it here you will know it to be fact-there will be no second geussing that is my responsibility that i feel towards all the members and guests out here.
WE

[wareagle69]

thanks for that rwc1969

[Rick]

It's called the telephone game, WE. And it's an excellent example of how people twist and turn details. Good point.

[Sarge47]

While I totally respect your decision, WE, I don't think it's all that well thought out. You see, not only will you have to report on what works, after trying it yourself, your going to have to go to the "flip-side" & report on what don't work the same way: Poisonous mushrooms, drinking pee, & so on! How do we KNOW that certain mushrooms are deadly when eaten if WE didn't die doing it? If the same creiteria is not applied you've just created a "double-standard." I'm never going to test the toxic dangers of drinking pee by actually drinking it, I don't care two farts in the wind what kind of ephiphany you had! I read that it's bad in all the survival books that I've read; I'll just have to take their word for it! Bear Grylls be hanged! That's MY 2 cents! :cool2:

[Sarge47]

And BTW, the story about Rick wearing the Twinkie suit IS true, I know cuz Ken told me! :sneaky2:

[wareagle69]

good point sarge, something to think about.
now heres something else to think about, not one person can find proof of kens intelligence, hmm coincidence i think not

[Sarge47]

good point sarge, something to think about.
now heres something else to think about, not one person can find proof of kens intelligence, hmm coincidence i think not
I was going to argue that point, but a man who won't treat himself to a squirrel dinner when the critters are right there being hand fed? You have a valid point.:sneaky2: :innocent: :cool2:

[2dumb2kwit]

Y'all, don't get me started!:innocent:

[Ken]

And BTW, the story about Rick wearing the Twinkie suit IS true, I know cuz Ken told me! :sneaky2:

Nice guy, Sarge. Trying to antagonize Rick huh? :sneaky2: Why don't you just ban me yourself and get it over with?

[Rick]

I was this close (|..|) to banning you over that remark. You're lucky you posted and cleared that up.