shapes

[owl_girl]

for practicality what is your personal preferred shape for a small and or big knife? and why? how dose it work better for you than another shape? whats that shapes purpose?

i see a lot of "survival" knives in shapes that look uselessly trendy. "tacticool" as my bf puts it. which is fine for a knife collector that hangs them on a wall but of little use to a bushcrfter. unfortunately i think many beginners go for these knives thinking they are bad@ss and actually plane on relying on them in the field.

when i watch knife reviews i often wonder why that person chose the knife shape that he did. if its actually the best for his intended tasks or if he just liked the way it looked. its not usually discussed. this left me wondering how much thought most people really put into it. i mean do most people analyze how a knifes shape will effect its performance? i would think so but when i look on youtube or knife forums it dosnt seem like it.

we have been looking to get another big knife (something we can chop and baton with) and one of the knives we were considering was the SP10 marine knife.
http://www.knivesplus.com/media/QN-SP10.jpg

now i dont think it would be a bad knife, however we decided against it because of the way the tip clips like that. reasons being...
1. it would take weight off the front in comparison to one with a flat spine. this is bad for us cause it reduces chopping power.
2. the tip is more fragile then one thats a bit more blunt. not that i think its likely to brake but we will be batonning with it and it just gives a better piece of mind to have one thats as sturdy as it can be.
3. the angle of the tip looks like it might be a bit awkward to baton on wile trying to keep the blade straight. unless we were batonning at the very end of the tip but as i said in #2 that looks like a weak spot.

i believe the tip would be good at delicate work compared to a more blunt one but thats not what we want so we are going with something else.

[crashdive123]

Here’s a link that’ll give you some ideas about intentions on designs. http://www.knivestown.com/ktown/blade_shapes.asp As you know, there is no one perfect design – that whole different tools for different jobs thing. I’m still playing around to see what I like best, but lean toward drop point knives. Here’s one I drew up that I’m about to start on with a little bigger belly on it.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii67/crashdive123/Knife%20Making/003-1.jpg

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii67/crashdive123/Knife%20Making/004-1.jpg

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii67/crashdive123/Knife%20Making/005-1.jpg

[hunter63]

O.K. I'll bite, Mr Dumas wants to know........What's Quote>but we will be batonning with it< Quote?

[rebel]

http://www.knife-making-supplies.net/knife-blade-shapes.html

http://www.knife-making-supplies.net/knife-blade-shapes-2.html

This might help with your question OG.

[owl_girl]

i think i have a basic understanding of shapes. my question was more about what do you like to use for your situation and why.

[owl_girl]

batoning is when you whak your knife threw wood with another stick
http://media.photobucket.com/image/batoning%20knives/daidavies/Knives/BRKTB2-Batoning-2.jpg
http://www.backpackinglight.com/backpackinglight/user_uploads/1243384530_13325.jpg

[Rick]

I really don't have a "preferred" shape. I'm more concerned with what I intend to do with the knife and whether or not the knife will do the job. Like everyone else, I have several and they all look a bit different. If it looks cool, so be it. If it doesn't, so be it.

[welderguy]

O.K. I'll bite, Mr Dumas wants to know........What's Quote>but we will be batonning with it< Quote?

I beleive Batenning is making small strips of wood from a large piece , but I may be wrong.

[welderguy]

Sorry OW I guess we posted that reply about battening at the same time

[owl_girl]

I beleive Batenning is making small strips of wood from a large piece , but I may be wrong.

its the technique of hammering the knife through the wood like a wedge instead of chopping.

[Rick]

Wedge, guys. Not wedgie. Not wedgy. Not wedgee. Wedge!

[welderguy]

speaking of wedgies. did I ever tell ya the story about........

[Rick]

(head slap!)

[panch0]

I personally like a drop point, thats the shape I find most usefull in my activities that require a knife.

[welderguy]

drop point or a clip point are my personal preference for a blade shape.

[hunter63]

batoning is when you whak your knife threw wood with another stick
http://media.photobucket.com/image/batoning%20knives/daidavies/Knives/BRKTB2-Batoning-2.jpg
http://www.backpackinglight.com/backpackinglight/user_uploads/1243384530_13325.jpg

Thanks, I guess I had not heard that before, though I have used this in the past.
I guess I can chalk up a new word for today.


Looked it up found this, looks like a good site to cave ariund on.

http://funditor.110mb.com/wiki/index.php/Batoning_Wood
Thanks again.

[Ole WV Coot]

Might as well give my opinion which is splitting wood, use a hatchet or axe. Knife shape, general all around use a good Nessmuk style blade. I still have my '64 K-Bar, false edge sharpened and a John Ek edge & 1/2, both retired to a case. The K-Bar opened cans and dug holes, the Ek was a weapon period. I believe the right tool for the job. A multipurpose tool is a little bit good for everything and great for nothing. My personal opinion.

[Batch]

If all you have is a knife then batoning maybe a critical skill. If fire fuel is limited and you have to shave, splinter and chop then you'll want to baton.

I baton my axe to split wood and such. It gives me much more control and I can do so much more safely and efficiently.

I consider using a baton a critical part of bushcraft. At least in my personal experience.

[Camp10]

I use drop points more than any other and I make more drop points so I would have to guess that others feel the same.

[Rick]

I have also batoned my fair share.

[SARKY]

For my small to medium knives, up to 6 inches I prefer a drop point. For a big knife, I prefer a belly forward/recurve blade like my Benchmade Bushmaster.

[owl_girl]

I baton my axe to split wood and such. It gives me much more control and I can do so much more safely and efficiently.


exactly. batoning gives more control and has been necessary or more effective in some situations that we have ran into where chopping just wasnt the best option. big knives seem to baton better for me then an ax.

[owl_girl]

The K-Bar opened cans and dug holes,

*GASP* im calling the knife abuse hot-line!:eek:

[huskymill]

i would think that the type of steel used for the knife would be more important than shape. i have two main (not counting the small ones) knives in my BOB. one is a gerber LMF and the other is a really cheap like $7 combat knife. both i keep nearly sharp enough to shave with. i like the weight of the LMF for chopping, also it has a serated portion that is good for sawing through small sticks. i havent actually used the cheap one yet and im not sure how sturdy it actually is but it is very sharp and any type of carving im sure it could handle without any problems. im not sure because ive never gotten the chance to use it but i also have a small utility knife(razor blade) in there too that i figured would be a good thing for skinning, should i get a rabit or squirell. does that sound like a good idea or is it too small? i know the theory behind skinning and gutting animals but have never had the experience of actually doing it. the only thing i have experience in is cleaning fish cause i used to fish with my grandpa and my dad.

[owl_girl]

@ huskymill
you dont need a knife to skin a rabbit or squirrel other then making the first slits. it will only make things more difficult trust me. you just pull the skin off like a glove, well not quite as easy as that but its not hard.

the shape and steel matter. for example a blade with a longer sharper point will be better at carving more delicate objects like a fish hook then a blade with a more blunt point.

[huskymill]

thats kinda why i figured a razor blade would be a siutable tool for that kinda stuff. and i understand what you are saying about the shape being important, thats why its not a bad idea to have a few different type blades. of course the down side of multiple knives is the weight factor.

[Camp10]

@ huskymill
you dont need a knife to skin a rabbit or squirrel other then making the first slits. it will only make things more difficult trust me. you just pull the skin off like a glove, well not quite as easy as that but its not hard.

the shape and steel matter. for example a blade with a longer sharper point will be better at carving more delicate objects like a fish hook then a blade with a more blunt point.

Couldnt agree more! The shape is very important to what you want to use the knife for and the steel type is important for how long you want to use it!

[Sarge47]

*GASP* im calling the knife abuse hot-line!:eek:OG made a joke!!!! :online2long: (writing in journal) "Today I started to suspect that Owl-Girl has become a "Pod-person!" :innocent:

Seriously though, I use a hatchet or an axe for splitting in most cases. I've never been into using a baton, but did think of being a cheerleader once; however Mom said no when I tried on that little skirt! :innocent:

For the record, I never gave the blade style much thought; if I like it, I buy it! :cool2:

[welderguy]

Originally Posted by Ole WV Coot
The K-Bar opened cans and dug holes,

*GASP* im calling the knife abuse hot-line!:eek:

If you think thats bad you should see some of the abuse videos from cold steel. they put some hurting on them blades.

[Sarge47]

Hey! Weren't you the girl who liked carrying a machete? :sneaky2:

[owl_girl]

i had a cold steel machete once. it did not meet our standards. after a few weeks we left it in the woods. after getting the ka-bar kukri i know there is no comparison, better quality all the way around. we have had it a year and its awesome. i am now skeptical of cold steel and not likely to buy a big knife from them again.

[Sarge47]

i had a cold steel machete once. it did not meet our standards. after a few weeks we left it in the woods. after getting the ka-bar kukri i know there is no comparison, better quality all the way around. we have had it a year and its awesome. i am now skeptical of cold steel and not likely to buy a big knife from them again.Hmmm, I don't know what your standards are, but Cold Steel is a great company. The "Pass-around" knife is one of their's & it's really strong. Maybe it was one of there "El-cheapo models." Ka-bar is very good, also. I own a couple: one with a "Bowie" style blade, & one with...whatever(?)

http://www.tomarskabars.com/1275_INFO.html

I don't have a very good machete, but if I were to buy something like that it would probably be the R-TAC II made by Ontario Knives. :cool2:

[Ole WV Coot]

*GASP* im calling the knife abuse hot-line!:eek:

That is a general all around tool, we were told by our dear Uncle Sam and it was used for most everything. The Ek I carried was more of a rib tickler and never abused. The Ka-Bar is in almost perfect condition and took a lot of abuse. They both look great and are in a display case, been there 35yrs. They have a good home and will never be sold or used by me again. They are treated with care. So CALL:sneaky2:

[owl_girl]

you can do what you like with you knives but no matter how good or tough a knife is, for me, touching blade edge to mettle, stone, or sand is against my religion (unless im sharpening). i believe in fully using knives other then that. the fact that stone and mettle has such a strong ability to sharpen an edge tells me that those materials have a very strong effect on the mettle of the blade so i dont use it on those things.

[hunter63]

*GASP* im calling the knife abuse hot-line!:eek:

LOL,
And this is from the one that beats the carp out of a knife with a stick, trying to do an axes work?

Knives are made to use, and I have broken the points off several supposedly good knives, spliting the pelvic bone, and generally abused most every knife I own.

[rebel]

*GASP* im calling the knife abuse hot-line!:eek:



LOL,
And this is from the one that beats the carp out of a knife with a stick, trying to do an axes work?

This might be entertaining...

[Rick]

Guy Vs. Gal - When reality just isn't real enough! Join us in March as we pit an admitted knife abuser against his arch nemesis.

"I'm gonna slam this knife into this rock!"
"You do and I'll murderize ya!"

But she has a closely guarded secret. She knows the Hunter has a tendency to set himself on fire. Will she help him along or just wait and see how badly he injures himself? And what's the best survival knife anyway?

Guy Vs. Gal - Coming in March.

[Ole WV Coot]

you can do what you like with you knives but no matter how good or tough a knife is, for me, touching blade edge to mettle, stone, or sand is against my religion (unless im sharpening). i believe in fully using knives other then that. the fact that stone and mettle has such a strong ability to sharpen an edge tells me that those materials have a very strong effect on the mettle of the blade so i dont use it on those things.

You wouldn't believe what some of us older gentlemen did with that knife in the '60s 'cause when you dug in you did it with anything you could and you didn't want your rear end in the air. Ain't nothin' like a shot or two to make you burrow in the ground and WWII rations didn't come in a ziplock bag. Beer cans were steel and you needed a church key to open one. Wasn't handed one either. This kind, knowledgeable, gentle, older person does believe that using said blade as a digging instrument kept his then unwrinkled hide intact thus enabling him to bring pleasure to many young ladies. If I used this instrument only to cut I would have been shot, starved, stayed sober and disappointed many ladies. I consider it a fair trade.:innocent:

[rebel]

You wouldn't believe what some of us older gentlemen did with that knife in the '60s 'cause when you dug in you did it with anything you could and you didn't want your rear end in the air. Ain't nothin' like a shot or two to make you burrow in the ground and WWII rations didn't come in a ziplock bag. Beer cans were steel and you needed a church key to open one. Wasn't handed one either. This kind, knowledgeable, gentle, older person does believe that using said blade as a digging instrument kept his then unwrinkled hide intact thus enabling him to bring pleasure to many young ladies. If I used this instrument only to cut I would have been shot, starved, stayed sober and disappointed many ladies. I consider it a fair trade.:innocent:

Posts # 17 and 33 said that too. Reckon this makes it O.K.? You and Hunter63 stand over there and wait.

[owl_girl]

OWC
i realize your situation called for such use. i was thinking of less extreme situations. in a survival situation you use what you have to.

[owl_girl]

hunter
i dont consider batoning with a small knife appropriate. i was thinking of the large ones that are actually for chopping. in some cases batoning is the only method to get the desired results. and you cant always baton as far through wood with an ax as you can a knife. one example was a couple weeks ago when my bf was trying to split an oak log for a project. it was very hard. the crack he wanted to start it on was vary small and thin and he would have needed perfect aim to hit it just right and even then it would have been likely to destroy the entrance, plus an ax would not be long enough to baton vary far through the log since it was so big around and the ax was to thick to drive in there (hard oak wood) so the kukri was the appropriate tool and once he got far enough through he started using wedges which was hard cause they needed to be very thin yet strong.

i dont have money to abuse my knives. why would i if it will last me for ever and b able to preform its intended tasks if i take care of it. i believe in getting good tools that will last vs. cheep tool that wont. its much less efficient to get disposable tools.

[owl_girl]

I don't have a very good machete, but if I were to buy something like that it would probably be the R-TAC II made by Ontario Knives. :cool2:

thats what we decided to get instead of the sp10. it should be here in a day or 2.

[hunter63]

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

I want to thank you for bringing up Batoning, never heard the term before.
I have done it in the past, although it was sorta a last resort type of thing.
I try not to abuse any knife, but it's still a tool.

Frankly, my father would have slapped me in the back of the head, for hitting any knife with anything, unless the was no other resort.

It seems to me that you actually "plan" on doing batoning, even when you are using fairly expensive, big and heavy knives.
I'm a small knife guy.
Can't say that I ever really need to do any batoning as described, but is still good to know.

As far as splitting a hard piece of oak, an axe and hammer would have done the same job, of it you gonna do a bunch of splitting a maul, wedge/hammer would have done the job as well.
For real precision work, a Froe could be used as well:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Froe

So I guess each to their own, and thanks for the lesson.

[hunter63]

This is what I use to handle the light stuff, on my hunting fanny pack:



http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/hunter63/DSCF0034.jpg

Not sure how I like the "gut hook" on the knife, might just grind it off.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/hunter63/DSCF0035.jpg

[Ph34r]

Generally i prefer to use a smallish bowie knife or full tang survival style. I usually use batonning as shown above.